Hlt Element Fixed Or Immersion?

[Hopsta]

Hey peoples,

I'm approx 2 weeks away from finishing my AG brewery setup, taken me 2 years so im getting very keen.

Im planning on making my HLT (50lt s/s keg) electric and cant decide weather to have a fixed element or use an immersion element? From your experiences what would you suggest is the better option?

Im thinking the immersion option could have a dual use for raising temps in my 38lt cooler mash tun so that would be a benefit, although im not sure if the immersion element would be up to the job when heating enough water in my HLT for double batches? :huh:

What wattage do you suggest i use, from what i've read most people have 2400watt. Wheres the best/cheapest place to get an immersion element?

Sorry lots of questions, any tips appreciated.

I'll be posting pics as soon as its finished.

 

[GMK]

a great investment is the immersion element - i have a 2400watt one.

My kettle is a 70ltr Electric copper washer with 2 heating elements of 1800watts each built in.
I still use the immersion element on a seperate circuit to get a good rolling boil.
IMHO - u will need both - a 2400 watt fixed element and a 2400 watt immersion element.

Hope this helps

 

[BigAl]

A single 2400W element is fine for a 50 HLT, IMO. If you want to boil then yes, more horsepower is definetly required.
My 50 HLT uses a single 2.4kW 1inch BSP screw in element from Tobins.
It take ~40min to get up to temperatures required for dough in. The key benefit being you can connect it to a temperature controller (I used a dixell one from a bulkbuy here) and/or have it turn on via timer, and excellent time saver on brewday.

Tobins were fairly good i thought, i got them to add a thermowell to the element for my temperature controller probe also. I think the element was ~$60 plus $30 for the thermowell.

Not sure where you are Hopsta, but JG Thomas in Perth have been pretty good to deal with also, they source some of their elements from Tobins.

Cheers
Bigal

 

[Justin]

Both good replies.

I have fixed elements in my HLT (1800W and 2200W) and they are great, but then I had to have fixed elements for another secondary use of my HLT. I also have a 2400W hand held element.

The hand helds are brilliant, I say get one regardless of what you plan to do in regards to heating your HLT. By buying the hand held you can test out it's performance for your HLT purposes before you have to start drilling holes etc and committing to that path and if it suits your purpose then all is good. I suspect it will do all you want of it especially if you brew in a garage or at least in a sheltered place. The benefit is also that you can still use gas on your HLT if you ever need to (eg. brewing at a mates place with no easy power access-no plugs hanging out the side of the HLT to melt). Also very easy to stick a timer on as stated above and have your stike water ready to go when you get up.

The bonus of the hand held is that you can use it to bump up MT temps when you strike low, or use it to adjust your MT water temp perfectly before dough in (correcting for any errors you made in judging the temp when transferring from HLT to MT-I always have do this). And of course you can then use it to bump mash temps back up and even step mash with it.

Then when your sparging into the kettle and crank the gas on you can throw the hand held in to help speed things up if needed. They are one of the most handy gadgets you can have in your AG brewery IMO. You wouldn't regret the purchase even if you decide to go with the built in elements down the track. They cost around $70 new.

Have fun and good luck finishing the brewery and commisioning it.
Justin

 

[Jez]

I've got two 2400W immersion heaters. They work very well.

I got mine from www.tobins.com.au - product number 4108C

currently listed as $74.31 each

they are in Sydney same as you too.

Jez

 

[MVZOOM]

I was hoping that my 2400w would be enough to produce a boil for 30l - apparently this isn't gonna happen!

Given enough time, will it at least simmer??

Cheers - Mike

 

[Hully]

Has anybody in Melbourne picked up a 2400W immersion heater for the quoted about $70.....and where?

Pete

 

[Hopsta]

Fantastic response thanks guys! It's settled then, i'll get the immersion element (cheers for the part number Jez) put it on a timer so its ready when i am, and if its its not ready i'll just give it a burst with my NASA. :super:

THANKS AGAIN!

 

[Millet Man]

I was hoping that my 2400w would be enough to produce a boil for 30l - apparently this isn't gonna happen!

Given enough time, will it at least simmer??

Cheers - Mike

A 2400W element will boil 30 litres but you need to keep the lid part covering the top or it will be a weak boil. You will only evaporate 3 litres per hour though.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[Millet Man]

Has anybody in Melbourne picked up a 2400W immersion heater for the quoted about $70.....and where?

Pete

No I paid more like $110 for mine from G&G but I'm happy with it. One thing I did was stretch the element out (in the direction of the coil if that makes sense) so that the energy was less concentrated. Fantastic for step mashing and extra heating/boiling capability.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[MVZOOM]

I was hoping that my 2400w would be enough to produce a boil for 30l - apparently this isn't gonna happen!

Given enough time, will it at least simmer??

Cheers - Mike

A 2400W element will boil 30 litres but you need to keep the lid part covering the top or it will be a weak boil. You will only evaporate 3 litres per hour though.

Cheers, Andrew.

Cool, thanks Andrew. Prob good for prventing boilobvers then too!

 

[Hogan]

I am also tossing up whether to have a fixed element or something portable. After looking on the net I see that there are immersion heaters and there are drum pail heaters. The following pic is classed as a pail heater and is a product of Hotco at Marrickville (no affiliation etc) Depending on the model it sells for $80 or $92 plus gst. Seems that it would be quite suitable for a coverted keg as it can sit on the rim. The depth of the wand is 450mm and that is the depth of a keg.

Specs as follows:

High density boiling element designed to hang over the side of smaller drums and buckets. Suitable for water based materials only. Available in resistant Incoloy 800 sheath and plated copper. Suppled with lead and 3-pin plug.

ORDER CODE: DMPH4CI - Immersion Heater, 240V 2400W Incoloy 800 sheath

ORDER CODE: DMPH4C - Immersion Heater, 240V 2400W, Plated Copper sheath.

Cheers, Hogan

 

[Justin]

Just one more thing, when stiring the mash keep them moving or you could end up with a mash of roasted malt or black patent instead of your nice pale malt -not much good if your doing a pils . I have never actually scorched any mash with it but I suggest that you could possibly do it if you don't keep it moving.

Another thing I might mention. I'm going to rig up a stwich near the element on mine. Not sure if I'll mount it in the handle or just place one in line on the cord right near the handle. It would be a great convienience to be able to switch the element off at the handle rather than having to pull the plug or turn it off at the power point-which for me is at the end of the extension lead.

Probably doesn't matter too much for those with SS vessels but if you have a plastic vessel I would get nervous letting is sit on the side or bottom of the vessel while you run to turn it off at the power point or pull the lead.

One more thing, don't pull them out of the liquid while they are on-not even for a second or Poof! $70 down the drain. I haven't done it but I'm pretty sure they would be gone in an instant.

Cheers, Justin

 

[Ross]

One more thing, don't pull them out of the liquid while they are on-not even for a second or Poof! $70 down the drain. I haven't done it but I'm pretty sure they would be gone in an instant.

Also don't leave them stationary in your mash or they'll go almost as quick - I lost my first one this way, but managed to persuade them to replace it free of charge
Mine was approx $120 in Ideal electrical - haggled them down to $89.00

cheers Ross

 

[Millet Man]

Probably doesn't matter too much for those with SS vessels but if you have a plastic vessel I would get nervous letting is sit on the side or bottom of the vessel while you run to turn it off at the power point or pull the lead.

One more thing, don't pull them out of the liquid while they are on-not even for a second or Poof! $70 down the drain. I haven't done it but I'm pretty sure they would be gone in an instant.

Cheers, Justin

Some good points Justin.

I have the scorch/melt marks in the bottom of my esky to prove it.

Also if you accidentally pull it out of the mash still turned on then stick it back in, whatever liquid/grain on the element will be scorched onto the element which will start scorching the mash.

Live and learn.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[Justin]

Ha ha, reading all these warnings make these devices sound perilous to use but they aren't as bad as they sound. Just a bit of common sense and armed with a bit of knowledge you'll be scorching mash like the best of us (kidding, I haven't ever scorched a mash just poking fun )

 

[Darren]

a great investment is the immersion element - i have a 2400watt one.

My kettle is a 70ltr Electric copper washer with 2 heating elements of 1800watts each built in.
I still use the immersion element on a seperate circuit to get a good rolling boil.
IMHO - u will need both - a 2400 watt fixed element and a 2400 watt immersion element.

Hope this helps

GMK, Where did you get it from? How much was it?

cheers

darren

 

[JSB]

Darren,

Hotco at Beverly sell them bout $100

Cheers
JSB

 

[kungy]

Hi Guys, here's my findings from when i bought my handheld immersion element from tobin.

I boil in a 40L stockpot insulated with a camp bed mat, and it boils 30 litres at 3 litre evaporation an hour. I also use it in a plastic fermenter for a HLT during the sparge using a chinese metal steamer tripod to keep it off the bottom. Works beautifullly. I love my element, cause it's cost effective, boils hard enough and works fast enough for me.

I have had a conversation with Peter from Tobins and he has told me some interesting points that are most helpful for those who have one or thinking of getting one-

With regard to the element going down to earth (ie if it stops working after a number of times), this can happen in a number of ways.


Mostly this happens when moisture enters the core of the element. This
reduces the insulation and resistance of the element and so is senced by RCD's that are on the same electrical circuit. This is not an avoidable situation unfortunately as general ware and tare of any element will gradually decrease its life span.

To achieve the best possible results from elements, it is recommended to always disconnect the power before taking the element out of the liquid to prevent the element from overheating. A RED element is not a desirable one, as when they are in this state they are basically at
their most vulnable, in that it is at a point where the tubing is almost
ready to melt and thus leading to fail.

Always make sure any foreign matter is not baked onto the element. Clean off any build up if possible when the element cools. If build up occurs heat cannot escape the tubing correctly and will eventually create hotspots which will in turn cause blow outs.


However there is always two sides to the coin. The negatives i've found is that the heating is either always on or off, so i could conceivably have trouble using it with a 12 litre batch should i choose to do that, it does have a lifespan (however the cost effectiveness offsets this even if i have to buy a new one), i have to clean the element after use (admittedly very easy though with a toothbrush) and it can trip the circuit if i use it with a washing machine during the spin cycle (darn, no washing at the same time).

That aside it is a most useful tool, and i can't say i will be switching to gas anytime soon. It boils perfectly for my needs (admittedly 6*30 litre batches a year, so requirements are quite different to the majority of people. But i love it.

Will

 

[Darren]

Darren,

Hotco at Beverly sell them bout $100

Cheers
JSB

Thanks,

Will give them a call b4 next brewday