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Nossil

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Hi guys,

I have recently set up a keg system in my spare fridge and have come across a problem.
As you can see from the pictures attached, the beer comes out 90% head!!

I've done a lot of reading on this forum, and first thing that came to mind was the beer was over-carbonated.
I DID try "force carbonation" at 100KPA rocking back and forward (gas on the IN plug) for around 15 mins... thinking if I roll the keg with the gas at serving pressure I wouldn't over carb.
But I got the above problem of too much head (and pretty flat beer).

So I degassed the beer by taking off the gas and rocking back and forward, waiting half hour, lifting pressure relief valve, and repeating. Then I put it back in the fridge overnight with the pressure relief valve open.
By morning it was back to normal (no bubbles!).

So I tried the 'semi-patient' method. Cranked the gas up to 300KPA and waited 30 hours. Took the gas off, released the pressure, turned the reg down to ~70KPA, hooked the gas back up and poured the above schooner.. same problem!!!

I notice there are a fair few bubbles at the start of the line (near the keg) and at the end (near the tap), which I suspect is causing the problem!

Beer line is approx 2 meters long.

Any thoughts as to why this is happening!?
Cheers,

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MastersBrewery

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ok I don't know much about kegging yet, but from previous threads the guys that can will need a little more info such as beer temp, and beer line ID. good luck
 

yaks

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Carbonating the beer at 300 kPa for 30 hrs would surely overcarbonate the beer in my experience. I usually rock the keg back and forth with 300 kPa on the 'beer out' for 60 seconds then leave it for a day or so, without letting any gas out. I have a dedicated line with the beer out disconnect for this. I've never had great success with trying to carbonate quickly.

The bubbles in the line are another issue. The gas should only come out through a drop in pressure or rise in temp. Maybe a slight leak?
 

Nossil

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Temp is approx 1 degree, line is 6mm.

I've read in numerous places the 300kpa for 24-48 hours carbonates it up to 80% or so then you just leave at serving pressure and it will equalise over a few days up to 100%? Note this is not rocking back and forth.

Regarding the leak, if there was one shouldn't beer be gushing out? Because the keg is under pressure (@70kpa) and lets say I cut the line with scissors the beer would come gushing out. So, if air is getting in (somehow) why isn't beer flowing out?
 

pk.sax

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Yep, overcarbed and the pressure has been dropped too far for the carbonation level present. Also sounds like you turn your gas off between sessions?! All these things will imbalance it.

Simple fix, raise reg pressure until you stop getting bubbles in the line and increase line length a little to compensate.
Better fix, do the pressure change as above but install a flow control tap. Shorten lines too.

Third fix, learn to drink less carbed beer. 2m line is ok, just carbonate to lower. 300kpa isn't some magic pressure! Just connect gas at serving pressure (or a few higher) into the beer out and leave it be for a day.
 

Robbo2234

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I don't know what's happing with your beer out port but it should look like your gas in.

I have tried the quick carb before, I could never get it wither way under or way over.

just set to pouring puressure and leave it for a week.
 

Nossil

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Well I haven't exactly had a drinking session yet with the kegs so I guess it does turn off between sessions, lol.

So should I perform the 'de-gass' procedure again? And this time leave at serving pressure of say 100kpa for a few days?

What about the bubbles in the lines?
 

yaks

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You're right on the leak. But thinking about the 1 degree you've got it at. Just check the temps are correct for the method you talked about. The colder the beer is, the more CO2 it will absorb. If you overcarbonate the beer then put it back to serving pressure, the CO2 is going to bubble back out of the beer until it reaches equilibrium, this might be the issue.

You might then have to let the gas out from the relief valve a few times then let the beer recarbonate slowly.

Probably wait for a few more replies first but the above is starting to make sense to my hungover self.
 

pk.sax

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If your carbonation matches the serving pressure, there won't be any. Bubbles in the line mean that:

1. The carbonation is temporarily higher than serving pressure.
or
2. The line is too long and the pressure drop along the line is causing the gas to come out.

Afaik, need to vent the keg a few times over a few days to actually bring the carbonation back under control. Every time, the beer will have repressurised the keg and you just take some more gas out until it feels right. Basically pour from the keg without hookig up the gas before you vent it, if it pours ok, it's time to stop venting and hook up the gas again, slowly raise gas pressure until flow speed is right.

Ps: what he ^ said. 1C is way too cold man! I'd carbed up my first keg @4C and then decided I didn't like it that cold and raised it to 6. It took more than a month off the gas for that beer to start pouring ok. 1C is bad, you are way over carbonating it.
 

Amber Fluid

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I DID try "force carbonation" at 100KPA rocking back and forward (gas on the IN plug) for around 15 mins...
This will over carb your beer.... rocked it for far too long.
So I see now you degassed the beer and guess what???..

So I tried the 'semi-patient' method. Cranked the gas up to 300KPA and waited 30 hours. Took the gas off, released the pressure, turned the reg down to ~70KPA, hooked the gas back up and poured the above schooner.. same problem!!!
yep, same problem. You over carbed it again.

Degas it again and even though a pain to wait, just set your reg to 200kpa for 24 hours then down to pour pressure for a day or so. When you get used to how your system works then I suggest to start experimenting with force carbing etc. In both your cases it certainly sounds like you overcarbed it for sure.

Alternatively you can set your reg to pour pressure and keep rocking until the needle doesn't drop anymore. Let it sit to settle a bit and pour yourself a beer. You wont over carb this way and it will be done a lot quicker than the above method.

So many ways to carb a keg, you just need to get used to your system and work out the best way for you.
 

Nossil

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thanks for your quick replies!

Ok so everyone agrees, I've managed to overcarb yet again....
When it gets back down to normal level, should this also solve the 'bubbles in the beers line' problem?
 

geoffd

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Yep, overcarbed and the pressure has been dropped too far for the carbonation level present. Also sounds like you turn your gas off between sessions?! All these things will imbalance it.

Simple fix, raise reg pressure until you stop getting bubbles in the line and increase line length a little to compensate.
Better fix, do the pressure change as above but install a flow control tap. Shorten lines too.

Third fix, learn to drink less carbed beer. 2m line is ok, just carbonate to lower. 300kpa isn't some magic pressure! Just connect gas at serving pressure (or a few higher) into the beer out and leave it be for a day.
I think Practical Fool is onto it, while I've no experience in kegging, I would guess the beer is carbonated at a higher pressure than the serving pressure, thereby allowing gas to come out of solution to equalise the beer pressure to the serving pressure

Reduce your carbonation volume to match your serving pressure, or increase beer line length (or reduce diameter) to allow for a higher carbonation level. temperature will also be a factor in balancing & pressurising.



Either set up a system that will do what you want , or do what your system wants you to do. dont fight the fuzz :)
 

The Village Idiot

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Hi Nossil,

Had all the same issues when I started kegging and after reading all the online advice(none of which seemed to work), rocking, 300KPA the "Ross" method I was contemplating returning to bottles. One of my LHBS gave me this advice.

Start with cold beer and carb at 200kpa for 24hrs, release pressure then 150kpa for 24hrs, release pressure and set to about 70-80 kpa to serve. Reduced line diameter from 6mm to 5mm of Flexmaster 11 line @ 2m. Problem solved!!! (worked for me).

Hope you get it sorted.

Peter
 

twizt1d

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No need to go offsite as there is a perfectly good article on AHB.
HERE
At the bottom of the page you will find crozdog's brilliant balancing spreadsheet.
Cheers
Nige
thats the one i was after, google led me astray
if you use that and still have foaming problems, its operator error ;)
 

Deebo

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Heres my 2c

Get 3m of 5mm Line.
If you aren't in a hurry just leave at 100kpa for a week to carbonate.
 

ekul

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I leave my system at serving pressure all the time, which i think is 70kpa. The beer takes about a week to carb, but i like ot leave it in there for a few weeks before drinking it anyway. Means i can pull a keg out, fill it back up and put it back in without having to do anything.
 

Nossil

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If your carbonation matches the serving pressure, there won't be any. Bubbles in the line mean that:

1. The carbonation is temporarily higher than serving pressure.
or
2. The line is too long and the pressure drop along the line is causing the gas to come out.

Afaik, need to vent the keg a few times over a few days to actually bring the carbonation back under control. Every time, the beer will have repressurised the keg and you just take some more gas out until it feels right. Basically pour from the keg without hookig up the gas before you vent it, if it pours ok, it's time to stop venting and hook up the gas again, slowly raise gas pressure until flow speed is right.

Ps: what he ^ said. 1C is way too cold man! I'd carbed up my first keg @4C and then decided I didn't like it that cold and raised it to 6. It took more than a month off the gas for that beer to start pouring ok. 1C is bad, you are way over carbonating it.

Hey guys,
Good news, I now have a nicely carbonated schooner in hand!!!
I shook the shit out of the keg, waited, pulled up the pressure relief valve, and repeated about 2 or 3 times.
Left it for around 6 hours (gas disconnected), then poured a schooner and it was say 20-30% head. Much better then the 90% head i was getting before!!!
So I've just had the gas disconnected this whole time and it's been pouring away fine. It is a tad bit bubbly for my liking, so I think I'll just keep the gas disconnected until it gets to my liking and then put it back on at ~70kpa and leave it.

I'm about to put another keg in the fridge, so what I might do is set up a 'T' piece on the gas line and hook the gas up to both kegs and leave at 70kpa. When the keg I'm currently drinking (LCPA clone) is finished hopefully the new one will be carbonated perfectly. Going forward, assuming I don't drink a keg within a week ( :chug: ), I don't think I'll have any carbonation problems in the future.


Thanks for your help guys, looking forward to expanding my HB knowledge and moving to all-grain/BIAB one day when I eventually master the basics.
 

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