Help with IPA

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Hey guys, I recently made up an IPA with BB pale malt (86%) 3% medium crystal, 4.4% cara malt and 6.5% sucrose. Which is 6kg pale, 300g cara, 200g crystal and 450g sucrose

Og was 1.065, fg 1.012, US-05, and heaps of different US style hop additions, mostly late, to 58ibu. It's a good drop but a tadd sweet.. hops, despite fwh, bittering, and a further 200gms at flameout aren't at the forefront and tastes somewhat muddled. Is this likely due to too much cara/crystal? Any tips for a better balance?

Thanks in advance

 

[mtb]

I'd say too much crystal/cara. Different people have different flavour palates but try eliminating cara malt, see how you go with 3% medium crystal alone. Or maybe 1.5 - 2% of each.

 

[manticle]

My pales and IPAs improved when I dropped from 250g crystal to about 100 (in 20 L).

 

[user 44743]

A lot depends on what you're aiming for (and like). A traditional IPA would be quite dry and bitter, whilst your recipe seems more designed for maltyness and hop aroma. Which is a combo I quite like, but it sounds like you may prefer the hops to dominate more. In which case reducing the sweeter malts and (if you treat your water) leaning the liquor towards sulphate rather than chloride may help.

 

[eldertaco]

Definitely could be too much cara and crystal. As others have said I'd look at dropping them back, and maybe no cara as mtb suggested.

Personally I don't like to use more than about 2.5pc in IPA.

 

[jibba02]

Bump up the ibu' s

 

[Dan Pratt]

your on the right track for a good IPA and to make that adjustment for the "sweet" flavour as mentioned drop the amount of crystal/caramalts.

Just run with 3% medium crystal for the next beer. And look to lower the mash temp, with the sucrose you already get a decent final gravity but for more of teh hop presence to pull through the drier the better. aim for 1010, that extra couple of points will leave less malt allowing more hops to show.

What is your hop schedule like, interested to know?

 

[Coodgee]

If I can get a bit more high level here... <Strokes long grey goatee beard> If you perceive the flavour as muddled then I would suggest simplifying the recipe. I have two IPAs that I do fairly regularly, the first is just 100% ale malt to a similar OG to yours. I love it and to use an overused phrase it "lets the hops shine". You certainly wouldn't describe it as muddled in flavour. So you might want to give something like this a go. I don't think there is ever a need for sucrose in an IPA. If you mash low enough you can get it plenty dry and plenty alcoholic. So pretty much like everyone else said, just go with a little bit of one crystal or no crystal and see how you go.

P.S. The other IPA I do has more crystal than most people would consider consistent with an IPA (Mr Pratt had kittens when he saw it) but I also really like that one too. It has a few certificates to confirm other people liked it to. I don't think this one is muddled in flavour or sweet but you might.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Agree with a lot of the above.
1) simplfy the grain bill and reduce the amount of Crystal
2) ditch the sucrose and mash a bit lower- 65C is a good starting point
3) you can afford to bump the IBUs which will have the pleasant side effect of more hops
4) Get your water profile geared towards hops. 100mg/L Ca to 300mg/L SO4 will do the job nicely.

 

[Dan Pratt]

had kittens alright, HAHAHAH.

some more good points for better IPA, removing the sucrose yes, get that mash temp lower and you will get the beer dried out.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I'm thinking of doing a single malt pale or IPA with my new bag of Maris Otter. People say it tastes like milo so I don't think I'd like any other malts to go with that. Should be great, yea?

It may also help in the hop department because no matter what I do, my beers are never quite like the best commercial pale ale's available. Close, but not close enough. They retain that fresh bag of hops taste and aroma where as mine are always just somewhere in there. I've tried up to 300gms of fresh dry hop. Shedloads of flame-out. Heaps of 20, 15, 10, and 5. Nothing quite does the trick so I'm hoping it's those pesky specialty malts burying everything underneath. Any tips for me I night not already know?

 

[Coodgee]

sulphate to chloride ratio is said to affect the hop presentation. plenty of info on the net

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Oh yeah! And I do adjust my actual water to the maximum recommended Sulphate levels for pale ales. Can't say I'm noticing a real change

 

[Dan Pratt]

I'm thinking of doing a single malt pale or IPA with my new bag of Maris Otter. People say it tastes like milo so I don't think I'd like any other malts to go with that. Should be great, yea?

It may also help in the hop department because no matter what I do, my beers are never quite like the best commercial pale ale's available. Close, but not close enough. They retain that fresh bag of hops taste and aroma where as mine are always just somewhere in there. I've tried up to 300gms of fresh dry hop. Shedloads of flame-out. Heaps of 20, 15, 10, and 5. Nothing quite does the trick so I'm hoping it's those pesky specialty malts burying everything underneath. Any tips for me I night not already know?

tastes like milo......ahhhhh what???

Do yourself a favour, grab a very small hand amount like 10 grains and throw them in your gob, chew them and see for yourself what Maris Otter tastes like, it wont be milo, FM.

Anyway back to brewing.

You can throw as much hops at a beer as you like, if you are not paying attention to the enemy you will always be close, but not close enough. Who is the enemy of hops, Oxygen. And the more of it (ppm) the less presence the hops will have.

Making a IPA with just MO will be fine and wont taste like milo, if it does you have other issues. Try and keep it simple, 30ibu @ 90mins, 30ibu in the whirlpool and 5+ grams per litre for the dry hop, use citra it always delivers for checking aromatics.

But without attention to O2 you will lose that effort, google closed system brewing, pressure ferment, pressure transfer, basically the beer shouldn't see O2 until it comes out the tap. the only time it needs O2 is for the start of fermentation.

 

[manticle]

I would not describe maris as similar to Milo but I like it better than milo so that's ok. It's a great base for many a beer style, including pa and ipa. I think just mo and crystal is a good base, just mo can also work very well if you prefer the drier style ipa.

Fresh hops, simple grain bill, fwh and lots of late/dry and good dose of sulphate should see you right. Reduce oxygen exposure and splashing as much as you can, light exposure is a no-no.

 

[Lionman]

Reducing the spec malts would help, or eliminating them altogether if its the hop you want to shine. As it stands you just needed more IBUs to cut through them a bit.

I would be aiming for 70-80 IBU for a beer that's sitting at 7% ABV with quite a bit of caramalts, if you want the hops to have a chance of cutting through. 58 IBU is barely out of APA, while 7% is in the upper range for an IPA. If you go for an all base malt malt bill then you can get a away with less bitterness.

I really like 60/40 split of Vienna and wheat malts for hoppy brews. You get the delicate Vienna malts coming through but it leaves a lot of room for hops.

Can vouch for 02 being the enemy after yeast has taken off. I have a had a keg be quite bright and hoppy only to fade in a day ro so to blandness. I realised I forgot to purge the headspace of the keg which resulted in the air in the headspace being forced into solution. (don't keg while being pissed),

All my pressure fermented hoppy beers have been my best.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Pressure fermentation, tf!? Sounds expensive. I have to say that I transfer to a bottling bucket without much care so there is oxygen getting in. Then there's more oxygen, bottling with a bottling wand so I probably should never expect 100% commercial results

Maybe kegging would be the go(?)

 

[razz]

Pressure fermentation, tf!? Sounds expensive. I have to say that I transfer to a bottling bucket without much care so there is oxygen getting in. Then there's more oxygen, bottling with a bottling wand so I probably should never expect 100% commercial results

Maybe kegging would be the go(?)

Repeat after me, "I must keg, I must keg, I must keg"

 

[manticle]

Pressure fermentation, tf!? Sounds expensive. I have to say that I transfer to a bottling bucket without much care so there is oxygen getting in. Then there's more oxygen, bottling with a bottling wand so I probably should never expect 100% commercial results

Maybe kegging would be the go(?)

Doesn’t have to be expensive but you can also just take careful steps to reduce oxygen uptake and get better results without PF. Every bit helps.