BIAB CHINOOK IPA

Discussion in 'All Grain Brewing' started by Hez, 11/9/17.

 

  1. manticle

    Standing up for the Aussie Bottler Moderating

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    Posted 9/10/17
    For accentuating hop profile, calcium sulphate/gypsum is the salt you want to look at.

    Personally though, while I really like chinook, you won't (in my experience) get much fruitiness or character many associate with hoppiness. It's great for bringing resin to balance fruir - you want fruit to balance the pine.

    Chinook/cascade, chinook/amarillo, chinook/citra or even chinook/styrian goldings. Combinations and permutations of the above work well.
     
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  2. Hez

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    Posted 9/10/17
    I put some cascade, but not nearly enough. I didnt have any more left... :(
    Note for future me: don't be so cheap with the hops

    Gypsum!
    One thing more to read about
    Thanks!
     
  3. Hez

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    Posted 10/10/17
    @manticle @Dan Pratt

    Lots to read about water:
    https://byo.com/bock/item/1478-the-elements-of-brewing-water
    http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/balancing-the-malts-and-minerals
    https://www.morebeer.com/articles/treating_homebrew_water
    http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3...h-ph/using-salts-for-brewing-water-adjustment
    http://brulosophy.com/2016/08/08/water-chemistry-pt-5-boil-ph-in-an-ipa-exbeeriment-results/
    http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/18/a-pragmatic-approach-to-water-manipulation/


    This is my water profile: (http://www.sydneywater.com.au/web/g...ments/document/zgrf/mdq0/~edisp/dd_044731.pdf):
    - PH 7.8-8.0 --> a little bit alkaline / basic
    -Total dissolved solids: 100-136, so it's quite soft

    About the other components, I don't think I understand this report...

    30-39 Calcium hardness
    ... or 11.4 - 17.3 Calcium ???
    18-27 Magnesium
    ???? Bicarbonate (HCO3-1)
    7.4-8.8 Sulfate (SO4-2)
    12.3 - 19.0 Sodium (Na+1)
    25-35.5 Chloride (Cl-1)

    For an Indian Pale Ale, I should try to mimic the Burton-on-Trent water which according to this article (http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/balancing-the-malts-and-minerals) it has:
    352 Calcium (Ca+2)
    24 Magnesium (Mg+2)
    320 Bicarbonate (HCO3-1)
    820 Sulfate (SO4-2)
    44 Sodium (Na+1)
    16 Chloride (Cl-1)

    They don't match at all! But the Calcium, Sulfate and Bicarbonate (which I'm still to identify in the water report) are in a way different range!

    So for making a proper IPA what should you do about the water? Which is the proper PH ? 5.4? if my PH isn't right what should I do to change it? Modify the grain proportion? add acid malt? use kilos of gypsum? phosphoric acid? is that even legal in Australia? What's the proper way to calculate all of this?

    What do you think of this kit:
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Homebrew...hash=item1ece942440:m:mQGXEo0uCqYJLo2RtMcw1Lw

    I think this deserves a full post!

    Weird idea: Dissolve the priming sugar in water and infusion some hops, like a very sweet hop-tea (more like a hop-syrup :p), filter the hops and use a syringe to prime the bottles with it! EXTRA HOPS DIRECTLY INTO THE BOTTLE! jejejeje
     
    Last edited: 10/10/17
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  4. homebrewnewb

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    Posted 10/10/17
    So many questions Hez.
    All relevant though, to a point. Yes there should be another post, and you can probably sift the forums for all the answers.

    What should you do about the water?
    At an extreme, buy or make distilled / reverse osmosis water and build the profile from scratch.
    Adding the ppm per mineral/compound you need. To get the profile you need.

    getting the correct pH for the mash, i think is around 5.4 is important too, you can do a few things but kilos of gypsum is not one of those things you should try. you can use acid and phosphoric is easily available. and you too can use acid malt.
    if i were you i would try on 100mL of distilled water, whatever you want maybe acid is easiest, dose the water and see what you results are, then scale them out.

    you would need to do a proper check that with preboiled wort first though, just to see how it pans out.

    proper pH for finished beer (IPA) de-gassed mind you, should be 4.0 or even lower, around 3.5.

    for now, tick it up to learning, water chemistry may arguably be more important than controlling fermentation temperature.

    good water makes good beer is a good rule of thumb.
    i wouldn't worry about the ebay thing at the moment.
    a good pH meter might be a better investment.

    and again, going back to the root of the issue, no real hoppines, you have make sure to keep O2 out of the finished product too.
     
    Last edited: 10/10/17
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  5. Hez

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    Posted 10/10/17
    Quote from this article: http://brulosophy.com/2014/09/18/a-pragmatic-approach-to-water-manipulation/
    "I tend to view water manipulation as more of a final step in a homebrewer’s development where already tasty recipes are taken to the next level by honing in on a specific water profile. Water is a polishing agent and you can’t polish a turd."
    First of all I have to be able to make something worth honing and polishing. But I'll keep on studying the water chemistry. I will put another post when I know more!

    Tell me if I have it right, please...

    1- After the boil you have to try not to expose the beer to the air in order to avoid contamination (bacterias, fungus, wild yeast...): I cover my kettle with the lid when the amount of steam/vapor starts to reduce and when it's at pitching temp I pour it quickly (without strainers or anything else) from the kettle to the fermenter.

    2- Before pitching the yeast, you have to oxigenate as much as you can the wort. I don't have an oxygen tank, so the cheap alternative is to shake the fermenter to try to "mix some air inside" the wort. Another cheap alternative is to put an aquarium air pump. Both ways (shaking and pumping air) will have the same risk in terms of possible contamination, wont them?

    3- While fermenting, the airlock allows the air to escape from the inside of the fermenter. This will be the air captured when closing the fermenter + the C02 the yeast produces. The CO2 is heavier than air, so at some point all the "air" inside the fermenter will be almost 100% C02. For dry hopping you need to open the fermenter and drop your hop sock inside. While you do that, you might capture some air, but again, the co2 has a high density, so this cheeky air is not likely to reach the beer itself, anyway, the fermentation is still going on, so new C02 will expel the unwanted air from our VIP CO2 environment.

    4- After fermenting I bottle using a "wand" (springloaded valve ) directly connected to the fermenter, and once the bottle is full I cap it right away. The air captured inside the bottle will remain closer to the cap due to the same old tune.. new CO2... higher density bla bla as well as the air that goes inside the fermenter when you remove the airlock for filling the bottles.

    I don't do bulk priming for these reasons:
    - I don't have another container with a tap/spigot than the fermenter and I don't want to buy another thing I have to clean, sanitize and store which I'll have to dump in less than a year (because I'll be leaving Australia).
    - I only brew 10L batches. Priming 30 bottles is not that bad. And my modified syringe for calculating different amounts of priming sugar method works like a treat.
    - I don't beleive having the turb inside the fermenter affects the beer, I agree with Larry (https://beernbbqbylarry.com/2017/04/29/why-i-dont-rack-to-a-secondary-fermenter/)
    -> Transfering the beer from the fermenter to another container would expose it to air and thus to oxidation and possible contamination.

    I have pretty clear the causes of the non-hoppiness in this beer:
    1st main cause: I put less than half the hops I should have used for dry hopping
    2nd main cause: I didn't do a proper 0' addition
    other causes that might affect: fermentation temperature, PH, minerals, water filtration, etc. etc. etc.

    All in all, I don't think I had a lot of oxydation due to my process. The problem is my recipe was wrong and I was a cheap with the hops.

    Thank you!
     
  6. Dan Pratt

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    Posted 10/10/17
    From what i have just read you are heading on the right track....researching information. Each batch, try to apply some of that information to brew better beer.

    The water is a very important part of brewing and a quite complex part but within time it will seem standard to make adjustments to suit the beer you are trying to make. The water you do have is very soft, great for lagers which after the IPA adventures you will find your way to them as a valued style to brew.

    To provide some simple input for your IPA water, don't go overboard with the Burton on Trent you can achieve the desired outcome with less ppm targeting sulphate at 250-300ppm and your chloride at 50-70ppm. The pH of the beer at 25c should be around 5.4. Mash temperature also will be a key part to getting those hops to pull through, something to consider.

    So in all honesty to get that hoppy character, you do need some attention on other brewing skills but you do also need alot more late hops, hop-stands, whirlpooling and dry hopping and like much like Manticle said, pair it with another hop or run with a much fruitier hop like Amarillo or Citra or Simcoe.
     
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  7. Hez

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    Posted 10/10/17
    Thank you!

    With all your advices my next IPA will be amazing! ;)

    I'm drinking one right now and it's quite good... Piney! The piney-ipa! Jejeje
     
  8. manticle

    Standing up for the Aussie Bottler Moderating

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    Posted 10/10/17
    I encourage you to read and research water chemistry so you understand it. However, as a very simple fix for your next ipa or even apa , use some cascade or amarillo or citra in higher amounts for later hopping, up your dry hops and just put a small level teaspoon of calcium sulphate/gypsum into the kettle. Think of it as seasoning a soup.

    Mash pH, calcium levels, etc can all come later.
     
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  9. Hez

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    Posted 10/10/17
    Thank you! I currently have a 100% citra american amber ale which turned into an english brown ale with IPA and Chinook on the go, but my next IPA attempt will be citra/Amarillo
     
  10. manticle

    Standing up for the Aussie Bottler Moderating

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    Posted 10/10/17
    Forgot you do half batches so 1/2 level tsp - you can add but you can't take away
     
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  11. Hez

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    Posted 13/10/17 at 2:53 AM
    I already have the recipe for my next IPA. It's not my own, so no questions really...* I simply adapted the most accepted recipe for this clone, the Zombie Dust:
    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/5916/zombie-dust-clone-all-grain
    to what I have and what I like and I wanted to share it with you.

    These are the only changes I've made:
    - incorporated @manticle 's magic (1/2 teaspoon gypsum)
    - increased the late 1' hop addition (0' doesn't work in the calculator)
    - increased the dry hops (the original recipe asked for 3.8g/L, I've amost doubled it, to me that doesn't work)
    - increased the carbonation because I like it that way

    I've already bought a bigger 25L pot (boiling kettle)! It will arrive hopefully next week, but I'm not going to brew this one until I try the Amber/Brown Ale I brewed last week (I'll bottle it this weekend, so at least 2 weeks more). I still want to brew a hefeweizen-bavarian-style (with more colour/flavour), a REAL amber ale (the one I've made is going to be too roasted/brown, I think :S) and a belgian/french saison (i'll probably do that one in summer, I still have to study a little more about that style, and I think I've never tried one! :S ) so I don't know the order yet... we'll see.

    *Well yes, I have a question: what about the mash temp? Is 67º ok? and 10' mash out or no mash out?
    IPAs aren't suposed to be very dry and being a bigger beer if I raise too much the temp I won't have enough conversion, will I ?


    ZOMBIE DUST CLONE - AMERICAN IPA - BIAB - 10L BATCH

    GRAIN:
    2860g 81.0% Pale 2-Row
    280g 7.9% Munich - Light 10L
    130g 3.6% CaraPils 1.8L
    130g 3.6% Crystal 60L
    130g 3.6% Melanoidin 25L
    TOTAL: 3530g

    68% efficiency
    SRM: 8.84
    Preboil OG: 1.039
    OG: 1.061
    FG: 1.017
    ABV: 5.75%

    BOIL:
    60' 7.4g Gypsum/Calcium Sulphate (1/2 teaspoon)
    60' 8g Citra -> 25.75 IBU
    15' 10g Citra -> 15.97 IBU
    10' 1/2 tablet Deltafloc
    10' 10g Citra -> 11.67 IBU
    5' 10g Citra -> 6.42 IBU
    1' 27g Citra -> 3.75 IBU (steep 30' before chilling)
    DRY HOP: Citra 60g

    IBU: 63.55
    TOTAL HOPS: 125g !!!!

    MASH:
    80' 67ºC <- 16.30L (TOTAL WATER 21.3L - SPARGE 5L)
    10' 75.5ºC
    sparge 75.5ºC <- 5L

    FERMENT:
    Fermentis / Safale - English Ale Yeast S-04
    15º - 23.8ºC (pitch @20º)

    CARBONATION:
    3.0 CO2 Vol.
    2.9g Table sugar

    WATER CALCULATIONS:
    Batch: 10L
    Grain absorption: 0.73L/kg
    Boil-off rate: 4.48l/hour
    Trub: 2L
    Kettle size: 25L

    TOTAL WATER NEEDED 21.30L
    STRIKE WATER TEMP 68ºC
    TOTAL MASH VOLUME 23.65L
    PREBOIL WORT 18.72L
    POSTBOIL WORT 12.00L
     

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