GUTEN

[Reg Holt]

I got my 50 litre delivered today, happy that I don't have to make a new measuring stick just extend my calibrations. My neighbour has the Brewzilla 65 litre, he reckons he got a lemon, cuts out during the mash, though its all right on the boil. Looking forward to some brewing wars with him.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

$499 for the 50L is very tempting. Might pull the trigger I think.

Wonder if KL will follow re the 65L Brewzilla?

KegLand will not be reducing the price of the 65L BrewZilla any time soon. The 65L BrewZilla is quite expensive to build. The low watt tensity elements cost more, the thicker stainless has increased the cost, the upgrades to the electronics, insulation, switches, additional handle, false bottom, stainless lid clamps so you can use different still designs etc. Given the quality of the BrewZilla 65L unit the price is justified. The margins are already really tight on these units and they represent great value which is probably why the BrewZilla units sell more in Australia and America than the Guten units.

 

[sp0rk]

KegLand will not be reducing the price of the 65L BrewZilla any time soon. The 65L BrewZilla is quite expensive to build. The low watt tensity elements cost more, the thicker stainless has increased the cost, the upgrades to the electronics, insulation, switches, additional handle, false bottom, stainless lid clamps so you can use different still designs etc. Given the quality of the BrewZilla 65L unit the price is justified. The margins are already really tight on these units and they represent great value which is probably why the BrewZilla units sell more in Australia and America than the Guten units.

Do you have accurate sales figures for both?
Going into a thread dedicated to a competitors product and linking to yours is a pretty ****** spiteful act, but it doesn't surprise me that you've done it

 

[ThirstyFish]

Do you have accurate sales figures for both?
Going into a thread dedicated to a competitors product and linking to yours is a pretty ****** spiteful act, but it doesn't surprise me that you've done it

To be fair, I specifically mentioned KL and their product and they came into the thread to answer the question I posed. The links were a bit cheeky, but hardly a "******, spiteful act"....

 

[sp0rk]

I could completely understand them replying without links, that seems fair
But this is not at all the first time they've pulled this sort of thing

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I could completely understand them replying without links, that seems fair
But this is not at all the first time they've pulled this sort of thing

To be fair, I specifically mentioned KL and their product and they came into the thread to answer the question I posed. The links were a bit cheeky, but hardly a "******, spiteful act"....

Do you have accurate sales figures for both?
Going into a thread dedicated to a competitors product and linking to yours is a pretty ****** spiteful act, but it doesn't surprise me that you've done it

Yes we do have very good figures for both and it's something we monitor regularly.

To say that you are not surprised that we have done it and it's a "****** spiteful" thing without you knowing what data we have would be equally "****** spiteful". So it's a strange position to take sp0rk. It might be viewed as hypocritical to say the least.

 

[sp0rk]

Yes we do have very good figures for both and it's something we monitor regularly.

To say that you are not surprised that we have done it and it's a "****** spiteful" thing without you knowing what data we have would be equally "****** spiteful". So it's a strange position to take sp0rk. It might be viewed as hypocritical to say the least.

Please reread my comment, I refer to it being spiteful in relation to posting links to your product in a thread about a competitor's product
Not in relation to whether or not you have sales figures

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I would like to know why the low watt density elements are more expensive, not as if they are exposed elements like the BM's.

 

[sp0rk]

When I was designing heating elements, we didn't charge significantly more for lower watt density elements, just the extra material costs for longer elements, the labor for the extra bending etc is negligible
And the incoloy that's commonly used isn't that expensive

 

[KegLand-com-au]

When I was designing heating elements, we didn't charge significantly more for lower watt density elements, just the extra material costs for longer elements, the labor for the extra bending etc is negligible
And the incoloy that's commonly used isn't that expensive

So this conversation has more relevance the cost of the low watt density elements alone is about a 5% increase in cost for us (this includes a small amount of R&D and tooling cost amortised into this figure). You might say that is negligible but if you add up all the other costs such as thicker stainless, extra handle, improved electronics, insulation, false bottom, stainless lid clamps these all stack up.

What was in question was "will KL drop the price of the BrewZilla 65L" you have to understand that it's not the same brewery and we have higher build costs and elements is only one of these cots. With the sale price that you guys are talking about we have a 30% difference between the BrewZilla and Guten. Out of that 30% we have 5% of that difference can be attributed to the elements alone. Once you add the additional features I am pretty sure you will find that each small upgrade will easily be absorbed in this relatively small 30% difference in price which is why the BrewZilla still represents excellent value.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I would like to know why the low watt density elements are more expensive, not as if they are exposed elements like the BM's.

It's quite simple. They require more material. In our particular instance we had to make a new element design to fit our particular boilers too so we had some tooling cost here too. Larger elements that take up more surface area in the base of the boiler cost more money.

One of the major reasons why the BrewZilla took so long to bring out is because we did a lot of experiments with lower watt densities elements and we did try exposed elements just like the BM. Here are some photos from our Jun 2018 testing:

As you can see we also started off with the mirror stainless finish but it didn't look as good so we went with brushed in the end.

We made quite a few different design changes and tested quite a few different shapes and designs before eventually making our low watt casting for the BrewZilla 65L.

In the end the expose elements were just so much more complicated to clean the marginal benefits of this lower watt density were not realised. As a result we felt the best possible result could be achieved by making a larger casting specifically suited to the BrewZilla units that we have now.

I should also note that we have also decreased the watt density on the BrewZilla 35L too. So all BrewZilla units are sold with lower watt density than our competitors (other than BM who use exposed elements).

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I got my 50 litre delivered today, happy that I don't have to make a new measuring stick just extend my calibrations. My neighbour has the Brewzilla 65 litre, he reckons he got a lemon, cuts out during the mash, though its all right on the boil. Looking forward to some brewing wars with him.

I am not personally aware of this and the return rate on BrewZilla units is extremely low. The reliability of the BrewZilla units is one of the main reasons why we have increased the warranty to 3 years. I believe this is longer than our competitors. If you have a neighbour with a 65L and if he seems to have any issues he should contact us for an immediate fix. The BrewZilla units all are still under warranty.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Be interesting to compare the new 70 litre Guten to the 65 litre Brewzilla, seems Guten has gone with the lock in bottom screen and sight glass as well as the larger capacity. Matched with a very extremely low return rate. Warranty lengths are a none issue due to the new consumer protection laws where the warranty length is deemed by judicial powers related to cost of the appliance.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Be interesting to compare the new 70 litre Guten to the 65 litre Brewzilla, seems Guten has gone with the lock in bottom screen and sight glass as well as the larger capacity. Matched with a very extremely low return rate. Warranty lengths are a none issue due to the new consumer protection laws where the warranty length is deemed by judicial powers related to cost of the appliance.

It would seem you often speak on behalf of KK. So can you please confirm that Robobrew units sold up to 3 years ago by KK are still covered under KK warranty? We have heard of a number of customers who have not been so lucky. So on behalf of these customers what are their rights under the new consumer protection laws?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

It would seem you often speak on behalf of KK. So can you please confirm that Robobrew units sold up to 3 years ago by KK are still covered under KK warranty? We have heard of a number of customers who have not been so lucky. So on behalf of these customers what are their rights under the new consumer protection laws?

Well I think most people know that the Robobrew put out by you when you were Keg King were a load of *****, that includes the initial release of the Robobrew 3 by Keg Land where you had to replace circuit boards and screens. I am not a spokes person for KK, as you well know they don't have a voice on this forum, which by the way another forum which you were refused entry as a sponsor relates to AHB as the Keg Land Forum. I just keep my ear to the ground to see what is new, and whats pending, there had to be a reason for the sale, I am sure punters would like the choice of a 40, 50 and 70 litre SVB.
I do so love competition, the punters are the winners, and that's not all, we have the Fermzilla versus the new Fermentasaurus, be prepared to be out thought on that front too.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Well I think most people know that the Robobrew put out by you when you were Keg King were a load of *****, that includes the initial release of the Robobrew 3 by Keg Land where you had to replace circuit boards and screens. I am not a spokes person for KK, as you well know they don't have a voice on this forum, which by the way another forum which you were refused entry as a sponsor relates to AHB as the Keg Land Forum. I just keep my ear to the ground to see what is new, and whats pending, there had to be a reason for the sale, I am sure punters would like the choice of a 40, 50 and 70 litre SVB.
I do so love competition, the punters are the winners, and that's not all, we have the Fermzilla versus the new Fermentasaurus, be prepared to be out thought on that front too.

You seem to be avoiding the question about warranty. Do customers have warranty for 3 years?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

You seem to be avoiding the question about warranty. Do customers have warranty for 3 years?

As I pointed out in a previous post it is not up to the seller to deem the warranty, it is a judicial matter aligning it to the cost of the appliance. Dear me are you not keeping up with the consumer protection act?

 

[Reg Holt]

I am not personally aware of this and the return rate on BrewZilla units is extremely low. The reliability of the BrewZilla units is one of the main reasons why we have increased the warranty to 3 years. I believe this is longer than our competitors. If you have a neighbour with a 65L and if he seems to have any issues he should contact us for an immediate fix. The BrewZilla units all are still under warranty.

Apparently he did get in touch either by email or phone but was told that the return of the Brewzilla was at his expense, we will be taking a look at the unit this weekend, i.e taking out the circuit board for some close scrutiny, I really don't want to have a brewing war with a crippled Brewzilla.

 

[ThirstyFish]

As I pointed out in a previous post it is not up to the seller to deem the warranty, it is a judicial matter aligning it to the cost of the appliance. Dear me are you not keeping up with the consumer protection act?

Weal - there are numerous comments by you in this thread about how good the Guten 2 year warranty is and that Guten's 2 year warranty was implemented due to the quality of the product.

Australian Consumer Law does provide protections to consumers for faulty products but it is intentionally vague about what a reasonable amount of time is and to my knowledge makes no specific reference to dollar amounts and time periods (other than guides that cite examples like it would be reasonable that a $1,800 TV last longer than 6 months). Happy to be corrected on that - I'm no lawyer.

Either way, going through ACCC (or the State/Territory equivalent) would be a massive pain in the arse and would take many months, if not years to get resolved. Dealing directly with retailer, whether it be the 2 years offered by KK or 3 by KL, would be a much quicker and much more satisfying experience for all concerned! I'd say they both deserve credit for these warranties.

 

[Ferment8]

It's good to know that according to WEAL you get more than 3 years warranty on a sub $500 product. I assume we can take this to consumer affairs and it's a done deal?