Guide To Keg Forced Carbonation.

[KGB]

IMO its probably easier to over carb the first time and then release some gas out of it - decreasing carbonation gradually by shaking and purging the keg a little bit at a time is much easier and faster than trying to increase carbonation a little bit at a time.
Once you get your method down pat you will be able to do it in your sleep almost. Make sure you use a stopwatch and time how long you are shaking etc.

 

[phil4124]

Well, been reading intently over this thread. Lots of good info but all leads to more questions for one who has not kegged before now. (Bloody newbies..........)

First and foremost, what is the indication of over carbonising? I understand a glass full on foam is a give away, but won't an incorrect dispensing pressure do the same?

I have just carbonised my first keg by setting 32psi on my refridgerated keg for 3 days. I have dumped this pressure and set approx 10psi for pouring. I didn't force it by shaking as I wanted to try this method first. As mentioned, one glass of foam. I have reduced pressure to 4 psi to try and see if that makes a difference, which is marginal. I managed to get a schooner (or two.....or three!) from it and have found that by no means is it flat but I wouldn't mind a touch more carbonation. (Taste great after three days! This from someone who has brewed into bottles for 15 odd years!!)
Do I try and carbonise more or have I got too much already and the 'bubbles' in my beer will never get any 'bigger'??

Secondly, when force carbonating using the Ross method, after shaking the keg for 50-60 odd seconds and then turning the reg off, is there any chance that I will get beer forced back through the lines to my reg when I keep shaking? Obviously a non-return valve would solve that but....... I was going to try by lying keg on side and gasing through gas in port.

I have no doubt that practise will make perfect and over time I will master this, but I do appreciate any advice....

Phil.

 

[SJW]

I can't understand how this method can be fcuked up if u follow steps 5 and 6 at least....

Step 5 After checking that the gas line is clear of any fragile objects, start rocking the keg back and forth for about 50 seconds. You can see from the video that only gentle rocking is required. You will hear gas bubbling into the keg as you rock it and the pressure on the regulator should stay at around 300kPa.

Step 6 Turn the gas off at the regulator and then continue rocking the keg. You will notice the gas pressure on the regulator start to drop quite quickly. The video shows the rough speed that the pressure drops back. This should stop at around about 140-160kPa. If the pressure drop stops above 160kPa you may have overgassed the beer by rocking for longer than 50 seconds. If it falls below 140kPa, the beer is not gassed enough and you will need to repeat steps 4-6 again but for 10-15 seconds only for step 4.

When I did it I only went for 40 seconds as I was not sure how it would work but it worked out fine. I was able to vent after 5mins and was drinking a great carbonated beer within 10.
Anyway this is not helping you. 2 things u can do.
1- Take the keg out of the fridge and let warm up overnight and vent off in the morning.

2- Gently shake the keg and vent, but if u have a nice Pilsner in the keg and dont want to stir up the yeast go with option 1.
Once fully vented leave overnight to chill and vent again prior to setting to serve pressure. No more than 100 Kpa. I set my serve pressure at 100 kpa then turn off the gas untill it stops pouring, then hit it with the gas again. With 2 kegs I get 6 beers at a time easy.

Steve

 

[sah]

Well, been reading intently over this thread. Lots of good info but all leads to more questions for one who has not kegged before now. (Bloody newbies..........)

First and foremost, what is the indication of over carbonising? I understand a glass full on foam is a give away, but won't an incorrect dispensing pressure do the same?

I have just carbonised my first keg by setting 32psi on my refridgerated keg for 3 days. I have dumped this pressure and set approx 10psi for pouring. I didn't force it by shaking as I wanted to try this method first. As mentioned, one glass of foam. I have reduced pressure to 4 psi to try and see if that makes a difference, which is marginal. I managed to get a schooner (or two.....or three!) from it and have found that by no means is it flat but I wouldn't mind a touch more carbonation. (Taste great after three days! This from someone who has brewed into bottles for 15 odd years!!)
Do I try and carbonise more or have I got too much already and the 'bubbles' in my beer will never get any 'bigger'??

Secondly, when force carbonating using the Ross method, after shaking the keg for 50-60 odd seconds and then turning the reg off, is there any chance that I will get beer forced back through the lines to my reg when I keep shaking? Obviously a non-return valve would solve that but....... I was going to try by lying keg on side and gasing through gas in port.

I have no doubt that practise will make perfect and over time I will master this, but I do appreciate any advice....

Phil.

Hi Phil,

You will only risk moving beer into your gas line if the pressure in the keg is relatively higher than the pressure in your gas line. So following this method, as long as your gas line isn't leaking it will have at least the same pressure as the keg and the beer will stay in the keg.

Other possibilities for the foam are a warm gun or tap or an unbalanced setup.

Keep at it mate. You'll sort it out soon enough.

regards,
Scott

 

[Uncle Fester]

Well, been reading intently over this thread. Lots of good info but all leads to more questions for one who has not kegged before now. (Bloody newbies..........)

First and foremost, what is the indication of over carbonising? I understand a glass full on foam is a give away, but won't an incorrect dispensing pressure do the same?

I have just carbonised my first keg by setting 32psi on my refridgerated keg for 3 days. I have dumped this pressure and set approx 10psi for pouring. I didn't force it by shaking as I wanted to try this method first. As mentioned, one glass of foam. I have reduced pressure to 4 psi to try and see if that makes a difference, which is marginal. I managed to get a schooner (or two.....or three!) from it and have found that by no means is it flat but I wouldn't mind a touch more carbonation. (Taste great after three days! This from someone who has brewed into bottles for 15 odd years!!)
Do I try and carbonise more or have I got too much already and the 'bubbles' in my beer will never get any 'bigger'??

Secondly, when force carbonating using the Ross method, after shaking the keg for 50-60 odd seconds and then turning the reg off, is there any chance that I will get beer forced back through the lines to my reg when I keep shaking? Obviously a non-return valve would solve that but....... I was going to try by lying keg on side and gasing through gas in port.

I have no doubt that practise will make perfect and over time I will master this, but I do appreciate any advice....

Phil.

Phil,

You have not described your tap setup. You need various lengths of beer line to drop different pressures. A search for "balanced systems" will shed more light.

If you have a beer tap attached directly to your keg, then 4psi is still way too much and yout keg will resemble a fire extinguisher. About 1psi at the tap is what I use - basically just enough to push the beer out of the tap.

If you have a length of line from the keg to the tap then you need to kow the internal diameter of the line and the length. A simple calculation will determine the optimal keg pressure for your length of line.

There are heaps of web pages out there that detail this.

If you need more info, or the process described better, PM me.


Cheers,

Festa.

 

[phil4124]

Hi Phil,

You will only risk moving beer into your gas line if the pressure in the keg is relatively higher than the pressure in your gas line. So following this method, as long as your gas line isn't leaking it will have at least the same pressure as the keg and the beer will stay in the keg.

Other possibilities for the foam are a warm gun or tap or an unbalanced setup.

Keep at it mate. You'll sort it out soon enough.

regards,
Scott

Thanks Scott. In my head i figured that when the reg is turned off, and if shaking the keg raises the presure (ie like shaking a soft drink can), it will feed back up the lines. As you explained though, unless I have a gas leak, there is no way it will.

Got on to a good thread on here a little later last night which spelt out the whole "balancing" issue. I may have a few more things to try now. Figured that with my setup I should have a pouring pressure just over 12 psi. And it would appear that my lines are about twice as long as they should be!

I have a tap mounted through the door of my fridge at 600mm above the centre of my keg. I am using 3/16 plastic lines and have around 2 - 2.5 mtrs of liquid out line to the tap. The tap is a standard old twist tap. What I did notice is that I am getting a lot of air in the beer line from the keg when I let is sit for more than 3-4 minutes. Always makes a mess when I first poor!

I think I am off to shorten some lines!

Thanks guys for all your input. It is appreciated.

Phil.

 

[jlm]

While we're all on the topic, after the 50s shaking then turning off the reg, if you have a valve to stop getting beer in the reg will it show the drop in pressure? Have done the Ross method a couple of times now, and havn't had the needle drop at all. Beer is generally a touch under carbed, I'm guessing due to me stopping the rocking too early. Nothing a day or two at serving pressure won't fix though.

 

[oldbugman]

the check valve will maintain pressure between it and the regulator. so no, the pressure wont drop.

 

[jlm]

Suspected as much, but wasn't quite sure. Will keep on shaking for slightly longer each time 'til I've got it right. Beer on tap at home is a wonderful thing!

 

[Ross]

the check valve will maintain pressure between it and the regulator. so no, the pressure wont drop.

Not quite correct - as the beer absorbs the CO2, the head pressure drops & the regulator should read it perfectly. the check valve stops backflow, which is not happening in this situation.

Cheers ross

 

[oldbugman]

oh yeah... should stop answering questions when drinking..was thinking along the line of the reg wont show the pressure in the keg when venting from the regulator

 

[phil4124]

For anyone intersted...............

I did shorten my lines to 1.2m after reading the thread about balancing your system..............but made no difference.

I did turn off the CO2 and vented the keg for 12 hours. Put 10 psi back and poured the perfect beer!! Obviously I had over carbonated.

As a newbie to kegging but a veteran of brewing of 15 years :blink: my main problem was wasting the precious drop while trying to get the system right. All new gear and no idea - makes for a headache to get it right. (As does the last 8 schooners..) As we all know we will eventually get it right, but makes for a very frustrating time.

The method of carbonating I use of 32psi for 72 hrs with a cold keg (without shaking) is obviously too much. Next keg going into the fridge this week will be gased for only 48 and we will see how that goes....

 

[QldKev]

If your ok to wait a few days; to gas just put it in the serving fridge and set the gas on serving pressure (14psi) and leave it for a few days. Your beer will be clearer, and perfect gassing.

QldKev

 

[matti]

I've read the thread through about thrice and none the wiser.
There are a few Q's regarding carbonation level I like to pose to the more knowledgeable keggers.

On heavier beers I tend to bulkprime with 6g/L, about 7-8g/L for the medium carbed beers and 9-10 for higher carbonation beer.

What serving pressure would you use for an ESB, APA or lager?

I have been looking for a guide as I am about to start kegging soonish.

 

[Ross]

Hi Matti,

I serve my ales at 60/70kpa & lagers/wheats at 110/120kpa.

Cheers Ross

 

[matti]

Cheers Ross.

 

[drsmurto]

I read this thread a few times before getting my kegs and it only hit me last night when i noticed the instructions scrawled onto a post it note on top of the keg fridge.

All this time i have been turning the pressure off at the reg after reaching 45psi and then rocking it wondering why the pressure drops so quickly and back to 0 so i just repeated this process 3-4 times.

I also use the gas in line rather than swapping and dont roll the keg as my hoses aren't long enough.

Enlightened now.

 

[matti]

Almost emptied my 1st keg of crappy beer.
I force carbed it last w/end. I left the serving pressure at 90 kPa.
I turn the gas off at night as then pour the 1st without gas on and then put the gas on again until I go to bed.

This arvo I poured my 1st glass at the pressure on 70kPa then put the gas on and the regulator got to 130kPa.

The keg can't have more then 7-8 litres left.
I turned the gas off. and my next glass was slightly heady lol.

I swear I haven't touched the regulator since.

What is the best practice for you guys,
I know every system different just need a guide
cheers
Matti

 

[pokolbinguy]

Almost emptied my 1st keg of crappy beer.
I force carbed it last w/end. I left the serving pressure at 90 kPa.
I turn the gas off at night as then pour the 1st without gas on and then put the gas on again until I go to bed.

This arvo I poured my 1st glass at the pressure on 70kPa then put the gas on and the regulator got to 130kPa.

The keg can't have more then 7-8 litres left.
I turned the gas off. and my next glass was slightly heady lol.

I swear I haven't touched the regulator since.

What is the best practice for you guys,
I know every system different just need a guide
cheers
Matti

I don't know about anyone else buy I'm a little lost....you force carbed and you say your serving pressure is 90 Kpa? Why did you put it up to 130??? that would be why your got more head.

I have only naturally carbed my beer but have forced carbed softdrinks. Anyway I carbonate them (either way) and serve at 18 psi (Approx 130kPa). From then on I dont touch my reg unless it has crept down for some reason. Haven't had any problems for a long while doing this.

Pok

 

[lagers44]

After years of dispensing at 1-2psi from 500mm of hose i bit the bullet & investigated a balanced system , and how easy life has become.
I can carbonate ate 300kpa for 24hrs , vent the pressue then adjust to dispensing pressure of 10psi or I can just leave at 10psi for few days if i'm lazy. It works a treat , I can even dispense at 8psi for ales ( jut pours slower ).

I've now got 5 or 6 metres ( pre cut roll from Bunnings ) of 4mm ID tubing coiled in the fridge & all's apples.

Thanks for those who took the time to dispense with the information.

Lagers