Guide To Keg Forced Carbonation.

[bljpoad]

I just did my first force carb and sample from my kegs (test run before I set the rugby team loose on them after the game on Sat). Came out quite nice with a 300KPa force, shook it down to 100KPa on the dial and left it for an hour. Not sure if this one will make it as far as Saturday now come to think of it....
- Berwyck

 

[tbone]

If I made a brew, but wasn't going to tap it for a few weeks/months am i best off leaving it flat and only carbonating a few days before intend to drink it?

by the way great thread, so informative and easy to follow, thanks guys

t-bone

 

[SJW]

Looking at setting up my first keg system. All the info on this thread is very interesting, but.....
Back at the start of the thread it was mentioned that to balance the system is dependant on the diameter of the beer out line and length of line. What I want to do to start up is just have the tap inside the fridge on the disconect. Would this method result in loads of ice-cream or are these taps regulated?
Steve

 

[Cortez The Killer]

My understanding is that you need to turn the pressure right down when pouring - this will flatten the beer a little after a couple of beers - but you can bump up the pressure again overnight or between pours

Cheers

 

[Thunderlips]

If I made a brew, but wasn't going to tap it for a few weeks/months am i best off leaving it flat and only carbonating a few days before intend to drink it?

I'm not sure that it matters either way but the few kegs that I've carbonated and left aside for a couple of months they have always turned out real nice. Better than those that I've gotten stuck into right away.
This is why I'm trying to get ahead of myself and I've been in brew overload mode so I can store some for a while. Gotta keep stocking up on those kegs. Buy em while the prices are still decent, fill them and let them sit in the corner for a while.

 

[Thunderlips]

What I want to do to start up is just have the tap inside the fridge on the disconect. Would this method result in loads of ice-cream or are these taps regulated?
Steve

Do you mean a tap that connects directly to the "out" post of the keg, like this below?
http://craftbrewer.com.au/index.php?page=s...t&Itemid=29
I've got one which use with my 9L kegs and it works nicely. You just need to drop the pouring preasure.
There are regulated taps such as the Celli, which are available at the above link, but they don't fit the adaptor

 

[SJW]

Do you mean a tap that connects directly to the "out" post of the keg, like this below?
http://craftbrewer.com.au/index.php?page=s...t&Itemid=29
I've got one which use with my 9L kegs and it works nicely. You just need to drop the pouring preasure.
There are regulated taps such as the Celli, which are available at the above link, but they don't fit the adaptor

Yes thats it. I just can't see the point in having metres of beer line going to a font or a tap that needs a hole in the fridge. Otherwise I would just get a Pluto gun but they are about $100 so I reckon those taps directly on the keg are the go. Esspecially if u only drink one or 2 beers a night. Also I like to do a lot of big beers that go well in a bottle with a bit of age on em.
I know... some smart ass will drag this post up in 1 or 2 years time when I am asking how to set up my 6 tap glycol flooded font

Steve

 

[rockin49]

Hi All..

After reading this forum for the past month, and learning a lot in the process, I am posting for the first time.

I used to kit brew and bottle years ago, now am trying my hand at AG brewing and kegging. Here's a couple of pics of my fridge setup (BTW, thanks Ross for great service and stock - most of my gear is from Ross).





Last night I kegged my first brew and today I performed the "Ross Method" forced carbonation. Not sure what I've done wrong, but it's definately overcarbonated (75% head while pouring @ 1PSI and flat). I have approx 1mtr of beer line for each tap (length that came with the twin tap font) and cranked the pressure up to 45PSI and shook for 60secs.. the pressure fell down to approx 10PSI after a couple more minutes of shaking so I bumped the pressure back up to 45PSI for 10 secs, then repeated process. Pressure sat at 15PSI so I assumed this was OK. It's been a couple of hours since gassing.

Can anyone help out? The beer is a Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale... tastes good, smells good, just flat with a big fluffy head

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Ross]

Sounds like you've over carbed a touch.

The rocking after carbing should just be for approx 20seconds before you see the neddle slow right up & that's when you should read it. If you kept rocking for 2 minutes, then it would eventually drop lower.

Unfortunately the only solution is to open up the relief valve & leave for a day or 2.
Or, if you have another spare keg, pour half into that, which will then enable you to give them a gentle shake to release the gas quicker.

cheers Ross

 

[Darren]

Sounds like you've over carbed a touch.


Or, if you have another spare keg, pour half into that, which will then enable you to give them a gentle shake to release the gas quicker.

cheers Ross

Ross,

Have you ever poured carbonated (let alone over-carbonated) beer from a keg?

Rockin, just release some of the gas if you can. Pouring will be a big mess. Dont do it.

cheers

Darren

 

[rockin49]

It's been about 6 or so hours since kegging. I have released gas (through release valve) a few times since - it appears that the head has reduced about 10-15%.. beer is still flat. Have now left the release valve up and will check it in a day.

I assume a day or two of leaving release valve up will make the beer completely flat and I need to restart the gassing process again? Or will it flatten the beer to a 'drinkable' level?

I have a Porter ready for kegging and want to practise on this one first

Thanks,
Dan

 

[mobrien]

Transfering from one keg to another is easy - all you need is a hose with liquid disconnects on each side. So I'm with Ross, transfer half to another keg and gentle shake - it'll be easier than dealing with next to no headspace to release the pressure.

I've overcarbed once, and the shake and release the pressure (an hour later! believe me, don't do it just after you shake!) does work - it took me abour 4 releases though over two days! At the end it was perfect, I just gassed up to serving pressure and it was right.

M

 

[Jye]

I have a Porter ready for kegging and want to practise on this one first

To all new keggers... STOP using this method! There are dozen of posts with exactly the same story of over carbonation.

Have some patience and carbonate by hooking up at serving pressure and leaving for a week, this will allow your beer to age,clear and carbonate correctly.

The instant carbonation method works fine but you need experience and understanding of what you are doing.

 

[Ross]

Few guys kegging their first beer are going to wait a week to drink it.

If you are not comfortable with rapid carbonation & you are desperate to try your first beer - Simply roll back & forth at 300kpa for 30 seconds & disconnect from the gas. Then after waiting 5/10 minutes for the head to dissipate, release the pressure & reset the gas to 70kpa & continue to shake/roll until you can't hear any more bubbles being released into solution.
This will take a little longer, but will make over carbing your 1st beer impossible.

Cheers Ross

 

[KGB]

If I made a brew, but wasn't going to tap it for a few weeks/months am i best off leaving it flat and only carbonating a few days before intend to drink it?

by the way great thread, so informative and easy to follow, thanks guys

t-bone

Thats my understanding, and what I've done with a Coopers PA thats been sitting in the fridge for a few weeks now. Make sure you purge the head space of the keg with CO2 though.

 

[rockin49]

It's been about 6 or so hours since kegging. I have released gas (through release valve) a few times since - it appears that the head has reduced about 10-15%.. beer is still flat. Have now left the release valve up and will check it in a day.

I assume a day or two of leaving release valve up will make the beer completely flat and I need to restart the gassing process again? Or will it flatten the beer to a 'drinkable' level?

I have a Porter ready for kegging and want to practise on this one first

Thanks,
Dan

I ended up leaving the release valve open for 24hrs. The carbonation level had almost evened out. Left at pouring pressure for a couple more days then spot on.

 

[reveler]

About to Keg my first brew, after doing this method and putting back at serving pressure at about 100kpi do I then just leave it at that all the time, or do I turn the gas bottle off after each session?

 

[reVoxAHB]

About to Keg my first brew, after doing this method and putting back at serving pressure at about 100kpi do I then just leave it at that all the time, or do I turn the gas bottle off after each session?

I leave mine at serving pressure all the time, as I pretty much drink all the time.. can't think of a nicer way to put that one.. it's not a bad idea if you're getting started into kegging, etc. (and have doubts/concerns with procedure and your system) to leave the pressure at 100kpa (for example) in the reg but turn it off at the bottle overnight or between sessions, as you put it.

A certain amount of Co2 will dissolve into the beer until saturated, even after force-carbonation so don't be immediately alarmed if you wake to find your kpa in reg has dropped from 100 to say 80 overnight *and this would be after turning off at bottle. It doesn't necessarily mean you have a leak. I find my beers balance, carbonation wise, a good 3-7 days after force-carb, but certainly drinkable day 1.

Lots and lots of variables so if in doubt, just turn it off at bottle between sessions.

reVox

edit at: *

 

[reveler]

I gave it a shot and under carbed it. I was a bit nervous of overcarbing so now I'll just connect it up at 100kpi and leave it for a few days.

 

[turto77]

Got my keg setup together last night and used this method, beer came out a touch under carbed, but i am sure i will get it perfected over time, thanks guys.

 

[KGB]

IMO its probably easier to over carb the first time and then release some gas out of it - decreasing carbonation gradually by shaking and purging the keg a little bit at a time is much easier and faster than trying to increase carbonation a little bit at a time.
Once you get your method down pat you will be able to do it in your sleep almost. Make sure you use a stopwatch and time how long you are shaking etc.

 

[phil4124]

Well, been reading intently over this thread. Lots of good info but all leads to more questions for one who has not kegged before now. (Bloody newbies..........)

First and foremost, what is the indication of over carbonising? I understand a glass full on foam is a give away, but won't an incorrect dispensing pressure do the same?

I have just carbonised my first keg by setting 32psi on my refridgerated keg for 3 days. I have dumped this pressure and set approx 10psi for pouring. I didn't force it by shaking as I wanted to try this method first. As mentioned, one glass of foam. I have reduced pressure to 4 psi to try and see if that makes a difference, which is marginal. I managed to get a schooner (or two.....or three!) from it and have found that by no means is it flat but I wouldn't mind a touch more carbonation. (Taste great after three days! This from someone who has brewed into bottles for 15 odd years!!)
Do I try and carbonise more or have I got too much already and the 'bubbles' in my beer will never get any 'bigger'??

Secondly, when force carbonating using the Ross method, after shaking the keg for 50-60 odd seconds and then turning the reg off, is there any chance that I will get beer forced back through the lines to my reg when I keep shaking? Obviously a non-return valve would solve that but....... I was going to try by lying keg on side and gasing through gas in port.

I have no doubt that practise will make perfect and over time I will master this, but I do appreciate any advice....

Phil.

 

[SJW]

I can't understand how this method can be fcuked up if u follow steps 5 and 6 at least....

Step 5 After checking that the gas line is clear of any fragile objects, start rocking the keg back and forth for about 50 seconds. You can see from the video that only gentle rocking is required. You will hear gas bubbling into the keg as you rock it and the pressure on the regulator should stay at around 300kPa.

Step 6 Turn the gas off at the regulator and then continue rocking the keg. You will notice the gas pressure on the regulator start to drop quite quickly. The video shows the rough speed that the pressure drops back. This should stop at around about 140-160kPa. If the pressure drop stops above 160kPa you may have overgassed the beer by rocking for longer than 50 seconds. If it falls below 140kPa, the beer is not gassed enough and you will need to repeat steps 4-6 again but for 10-15 seconds only for step 4.

When I did it I only went for 40 seconds as I was not sure how it would work but it worked out fine. I was able to vent after 5mins and was drinking a great carbonated beer within 10.
Anyway this is not helping you. 2 things u can do.
1- Take the keg out of the fridge and let warm up overnight and vent off in the morning.

2- Gently shake the keg and vent, but if u have a nice Pilsner in the keg and dont want to stir up the yeast go with option 1.
Once fully vented leave overnight to chill and vent again prior to setting to serve pressure. No more than 100 Kpa. I set my serve pressure at 100 kpa then turn off the gas untill it stops pouring, then hit it with the gas again. With 2 kegs I get 6 beers at a time easy.

Steve

 

[sah]

Well, been reading intently over this thread. Lots of good info but all leads to more questions for one who has not kegged before now. (Bloody newbies..........)

First and foremost, what is the indication of over carbonising? I understand a glass full on foam is a give away, but won't an incorrect dispensing pressure do the same?

I have just carbonised my first keg by setting 32psi on my refridgerated keg for 3 days. I have dumped this pressure and set approx 10psi for pouring. I didn't force it by shaking as I wanted to try this method first. As mentioned, one glass of foam. I have reduced pressure to 4 psi to try and see if that makes a difference, which is marginal. I managed to get a schooner (or two.....or three!) from it and have found that by no means is it flat but I wouldn't mind a touch more carbonation. (Taste great after three days! This from someone who has brewed into bottles for 15 odd years!!)
Do I try and carbonise more or have I got too much already and the 'bubbles' in my beer will never get any 'bigger'??

Secondly, when force carbonating using the Ross method, after shaking the keg for 50-60 odd seconds and then turning the reg off, is there any chance that I will get beer forced back through the lines to my reg when I keep shaking? Obviously a non-return valve would solve that but....... I was going to try by lying keg on side and gasing through gas in port.

I have no doubt that practise will make perfect and over time I will master this, but I do appreciate any advice....

Phil.

Hi Phil,

You will only risk moving beer into your gas line if the pressure in the keg is relatively higher than the pressure in your gas line. So following this method, as long as your gas line isn't leaking it will have at least the same pressure as the keg and the beer will stay in the keg.

Other possibilities for the foam are a warm gun or tap or an unbalanced setup.

Keep at it mate. You'll sort it out soon enough.

regards,
Scott

 

[Uncle Fester]

Well, been reading intently over this thread. Lots of good info but all leads to more questions for one who has not kegged before now. (Bloody newbies..........)

First and foremost, what is the indication of over carbonising? I understand a glass full on foam is a give away, but won't an incorrect dispensing pressure do the same?

I have just carbonised my first keg by setting 32psi on my refridgerated keg for 3 days. I have dumped this pressure and set approx 10psi for pouring. I didn't force it by shaking as I wanted to try this method first. As mentioned, one glass of foam. I have reduced pressure to 4 psi to try and see if that makes a difference, which is marginal. I managed to get a schooner (or two.....or three!) from it and have found that by no means is it flat but I wouldn't mind a touch more carbonation. (Taste great after three days! This from someone who has brewed into bottles for 15 odd years!!)
Do I try and carbonise more or have I got too much already and the 'bubbles' in my beer will never get any 'bigger'??

Secondly, when force carbonating using the Ross method, after shaking the keg for 50-60 odd seconds and then turning the reg off, is there any chance that I will get beer forced back through the lines to my reg when I keep shaking? Obviously a non-return valve would solve that but....... I was going to try by lying keg on side and gasing through gas in port.

I have no doubt that practise will make perfect and over time I will master this, but I do appreciate any advice....

Phil.

Phil,

You have not described your tap setup. You need various lengths of beer line to drop different pressures. A search for "balanced systems" will shed more light.

If you have a beer tap attached directly to your keg, then 4psi is still way too much and yout keg will resemble a fire extinguisher. About 1psi at the tap is what I use - basically just enough to push the beer out of the tap.

If you have a length of line from the keg to the tap then you need to kow the internal diameter of the line and the length. A simple calculation will determine the optimal keg pressure for your length of line.

There are heaps of web pages out there that detail this.

If you need more info, or the process described better, PM me.


Cheers,

Festa.

 

[phil4124]

Hi Phil,

You will only risk moving beer into your gas line if the pressure in the keg is relatively higher than the pressure in your gas line. So following this method, as long as your gas line isn't leaking it will have at least the same pressure as the keg and the beer will stay in the keg.

Other possibilities for the foam are a warm gun or tap or an unbalanced setup.

Keep at it mate. You'll sort it out soon enough.

regards,
Scott

Thanks Scott. In my head i figured that when the reg is turned off, and if shaking the keg raises the presure (ie like shaking a soft drink can), it will feed back up the lines. As you explained though, unless I have a gas leak, there is no way it will.

Got on to a good thread on here a little later last night which spelt out the whole "balancing" issue. I may have a few more things to try now. Figured that with my setup I should have a pouring pressure just over 12 psi. And it would appear that my lines are about twice as long as they should be!

I have a tap mounted through the door of my fridge at 600mm above the centre of my keg. I am using 3/16 plastic lines and have around 2 - 2.5 mtrs of liquid out line to the tap. The tap is a standard old twist tap. What I did notice is that I am getting a lot of air in the beer line from the keg when I let is sit for more than 3-4 minutes. Always makes a mess when I first poor!

I think I am off to shorten some lines!

Thanks guys for all your input. It is appreciated.

Phil.

 

[jlm]

While we're all on the topic, after the 50s shaking then turning off the reg, if you have a valve to stop getting beer in the reg will it show the drop in pressure? Have done the Ross method a couple of times now, and havn't had the needle drop at all. Beer is generally a touch under carbed, I'm guessing due to me stopping the rocking too early. Nothing a day or two at serving pressure won't fix though.

 

[oldbugman]

the check valve will maintain pressure between it and the regulator. so no, the pressure wont drop.

 

[jlm]

Suspected as much, but wasn't quite sure. Will keep on shaking for slightly longer each time 'til I've got it right. Beer on tap at home is a wonderful thing!

 

[Ross]

the check valve will maintain pressure between it and the regulator. so no, the pressure wont drop.

Not quite correct - as the beer absorbs the CO2, the head pressure drops & the regulator should read it perfectly. the check valve stops backflow, which is not happening in this situation.

Cheers ross