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Grain Bill Review - 23 Litre Batches

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davidpr

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Hi all,

Three grain bills I'm thinking over for my first three AG brews:

5kg Golden Promise
500g Crystal 60
250g Amber Malt

and

5kg Pale Ale Malt
500g Caramalt

and

5kg Wheat Malt
1kg Golden Promise

Are any of these seriously out of whack somehow (taking style considerations out of the equation)?
 

cam89brewer

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The first 2 should be fine both coming away as a nice amber ale for the first, a nice pale ale with caramel overtones for the second but with the third I am not sure if you want quite that much wheat... see what others say. :lol:
 

cam89brewer

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I would say the maximum percentage wheat would be about 70% but that is on the top end of the scale, I generally don't go over 50%.
 

QldKev

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The first 2 will make beer, without knowing the full recipe **** knows what it will be like.

The last one is bad. Most wheat beers are 50% wheat, I would never consider going over 60% wheat.


If you are asking this level question without trying to discuss a full recipe, I would really recommend reading the recipe DB, finding a brew you want to make, and following a few of them to get a few brews under your belt.

QldKev
 

benno1973

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Yeh, to echo the above comments, draining the mash on bill #3 will be like trying to strain porridge through a collander. I like a little wheat in a beer, I think it gives a nice creamy mouthfeel, but even for a proper wheat beer I'd stop at 50%. Actually, I hate wheat beers...
 

cam89brewer

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The first 2 will make beer, without knowing the full recipe **** knows what it will be like.

The last one is bad. Most wheat beers are 50% wheat, I would never consider going over 60% wheat.


If you are asking this level question without trying to discuss a full recipe, I would really recommend reading the recipe DB, finding a brew you want to make, and following a few of them to get a few brews under your belt.

QldKev
+1 As I feel that when creating your own recipes the hard part isn't getting the right grain bill or hop schedule but the fact of trying to balance the 2 and helps to use a graph such as this. Also a lot of people use beersmith as have I in the past but a quick and easy site is www.beercalculus.com .

IBU_graph.jpg
 

davidpr

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Thanks fellas, that's stopped me from making a big mistake by the look of it. I'll reschedule the wheat bill back to 50%. Primarily I was being a stinge and hoping to get a dollar off a kilo by going 5kg of something in each recipe but I'll have to bite the bullet a bit with the wheat beer.

As for hops I'm getting a little bit of a feel having hopped kit brews before so I'm not scared I'll stuff up the hops, with the exception of the bittering hops which I might stuff up a bit. I'm relying on a program called "BrewMate" to steer me on the bittering. Most of this hops I have lying around already so I'm just using it because it's what I have. But the grain I'm just taking the best stab I can without ever having done an AG brew before.

These are the three recipes (with adjustments to the wheat beer) exported from BrewMate:

Amber Ale (American Amber Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.055 (P): 13.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (P): 3.6
Alcohol (ABV): 5.40 %
Colour (SRM): 11.0 (EBC): 21.7
Bitterness (IBU): 33.4 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

86.96% Golden Promise Malt
8.7% Crystal 60
4.35% Amber Malt

0.4 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.9 g/L East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 12 Minutes (Boil)
0.9 g/L Willamette (7.1% Alpha) @ 12 Minutes (Boil)
0.9 g/L East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
0.9 g/L Willamette (7.1% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 20 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05


Pale Ale (Australian Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.053 (P): 13.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 5.21 %
Colour (SRM): 7.2 (EBC): 14.2
Bitterness (IBU): 45.9 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

90.91% Pale Ale Malt
9.09% Caramalt

0.7 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 12 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Saaz (3.6% Alpha) @ 12 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
0.5 g/L Saaz (3.6% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)

Single step Infusion at 66C for 20 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05

Notes: 2/24/2012 8:17:20 AM : The Pale Ale malt in this case is "Optic Malt"

Witbier (Witbier)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.058 (P): 14.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (P): 3.8
Alcohol (ABV): 5.70 %
Colour (SRM): 4.8 (EBC): 9.5
Bitterness (IBU): 34.7 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

50% Golden Promise Malt
50% Wheat Malt

0.7 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Hallertau Aroma (8.1% Alpha) @ 12 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Tettnanger (4% Alpha) @ 12 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Hallertau Aroma (8.1% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
0.5 g/L Tettnanger (4% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)

Single step Infusion at 66C for 20 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05
 

Nick JD

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I've made 100% wheat beers before. They're very pale and tangy. Quite nice if you like that sort of thing.

Just don't make a 100% wheat lager.
 

.DJ.

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Witbier (Witbier)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.058 (P): 14.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (P): 3.8
Alcohol (ABV): 5.70 %
Colour (SRM): 4.8 (EBC): 9.5
Bitterness (IBU): 34.7 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

50% Golden Promise Malt
50% Wheat Malt

0.7 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Hallertau Aroma (8.1% Alpha) @ 12 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Tettnanger (4% Alpha) @ 12 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Hallertau Aroma (8.1% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
0.5 g/L Tettnanger (4% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)

Single step Infusion at 66C for 20 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05
The bitterness in this seem OTT to me? Not that im an expert though however my wheat beers are only bittered to 13-18 IBU...
 

QldKev

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The bitterness in this seem OTT to me? Not that im an expert though however my wheat beers are only bittered to 13-18 IBU...

IMHO
Too bitter,
should not use Galaxy in a wheat beer (but maybe it could work, just not a combo I've though off ever using),
and I would not use 50% wheat with US-05, if I was doing a wheat beer I would always use a what yeast like 3068, but maybe if it's what you are after?

QldKev
 

Nick JD

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Google BJCP American Wheat Beer.
 

.DJ.

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calling it a wit obviously caused the confusion...
 

Dazza88

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it looks like you are going into stone and wood terrority. 50.50 pils and wheat and late galaxy.

edit. read from two recipes.

but s&w is a good recipe with the range of ingredients you have.
 

Nick JD

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calling it a wit obviously caused the confusion...
People are very confused when it comes to the 3 wheatbeers. If you use US05, you're making an American wheat no matter what you put in it because it won't taste like a euro wheat at all.

The amount of American wheats that are mislabled "Hefeweizen" is shocking - especially when you buy one.

I don't like American wheat beers - they taste like tart, dry APAs. German and belgian ones are SUPURB!
 

Lord Raja Goomba I

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FWIW - I did a roggenweiss, which was 80% Wheat, 20% Rye. It was a European style wheat beer.

Fantastic beer. Used WB06, which gave me moderate clove, but no banana. No biggie, but I reckon I'll use a smack pack of proper german weizen hefe next time.

I know for some (usually American) styles <=50% wheat is the mark, but seriously, I dunno where the "don't use more than 50%" mantra comes from. Even BJCP says that for a Euro Weizen at least 50% must come from wheat, but generally no more than 70%, so my 80% was hardly pushing the envelope - and it showed. Great beer, but nothing outrageous for sure.

Goomba

Edit: Clarity.
 

sponge

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Just a couple of things to point out.

You'll want to mash for longer than 20min as stated in your recipes. There won't be much conversion after only 20min

Also, not that this matters in the slightest, but using willamette and EKG will give a much more earthy/spicy pale ale than your normal fruity/citrusy AAA. But if thats what youre after than youre definitely on a winner.

As for the wheat beer, as others have mentioned, you'd be wanting to drop the bitterness back down to 15-18 IBUs. Also, using US05 will give a much more murrays whale ale type wheat beer, than the normal clove/banana wheat beer that you may be trying for. Either way, it should make for a tasty drop


Sponge
 

pmastello

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All wheat beers can be done

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF6FkLqmqUk
 

davidpr

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Thanks a lot for all your advice. I was hoping to make a european style wheat beer but clearly I was way off the mark in many respects, and I've altered my wheat beer recipe considerably - to use an appropriate yeast, a more balanced grain approach (although I did watch that youtube video, thanks for that), adjusted the hopping and extended the mash time. Lots of alterations and thanks to you guys I might have a chance now ^_^
 

warra48

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I'd personally rethink the extent of Crystal and Cara malts in the first two recipes, and cut them back to about 250 gr.

500 gr will lead to a sweetish beer, which is fine, if that's what you want, but it's not really mainstream.
 

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