Going Nitrogen

[skb]

A very old thread ,.. but fingers crossed you guys are sill around and posting. I want to go Nitro and have read the threads, I see the Multimix (30/70) seemed to be the good starting point but then concerned about the increase CO2 intake over time due to high pressure, and then on a side thread a discussion around maybe carbing with the CO2 and then dispensing with pure nitrogen (and I see that morebeer.com in the US seems to use this method). I assume this method has the other disadvantage of the beer becoming flat over time.

What is the final view, in my case I will probably take 2-3 months to go through a keg of stout so it will be on for a while ? Tony love the photos and that is what I want from my homebrew

 

[Tony]

Hey mate

I think the idea behind the 30/70 mix is that it has the right amount of Co2 in it to carb to the correct level at the higher pressure required to serve.

I used to filter cold into the keg, then apply serving pressure and shake, the same as i did with 100% Co2 beers, and they worked out fine.

If the keg will sit for a while and your worried about further absorbtion of Co2, put an isolation tap on the gas line going to the keg and just turn it on to pour a pint, and then back off again.

Easy!

 

[Ross]

SKB,

Pour at 200kpa & the beer will be fine - It will not over gas in time. the nitrogen mix stops this happening.


Cheers Ross

 

[skb]

Thanks Ross and tony ... Next step financial approval from wife, that's the hard step

 

[dannymars]

Anyone know if you can get smaller cylinders than "F"?

I have a 2.6 kilo CO2 bottle in my keezer, and don't really want to have to run a massive bottle outside the keezer for the sake of one tap. There's room in there for one more gas bottle of the same size I've already got.

 

[Murdoch]

I saw VT sized 70/30 nitro/Co2 mix (I think it was a BOC bottle) at the AIBA`s in 2013 although I could only get F sized bottles in Qld

 

[Seeker]

Just stumbled over this thread and I'm changing my plans - have been stuffing around with a beer engine, and it's just too hard to get right, so this seems perfect.

So full list of parts required from scratch is;

Drilled fridge $100
Mix gas bottle $170 pa
Gas & beer lines $30
Line connectors $50
Stout tap $140
Tap shank $45
Keg $70

So around $650 assuming no equipment.

 

[Bribie G]

Don't forget a nitro regulator as well, about $90.

 

[kegs23]

i got my bottle (same size as a 6.8kg co2 bottle) but nitrogen 70/30 blend from speed gas in brisbane $320 out right for bottle (no on going fees),he brings a exchange bottle with him when yours is empty and delivers it to your house or work,
i am still on my 1st bottle,done 3x19l kegs so far,

 

[Seeker]

So full list of parts required from scratch is;

Drilled fridge $100
Mix gas bottle $170 pa
Gas & beer lines $30
Line connectors $50
Stout tap $140
Tap shank $45
Keg $70
Regulator $90

Total apprx = $695

Getting a bit steep!

 

[Seeker]

Is a Harris 601 CO2 reg suitable?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

All CO2 regs are suitable for nitrogen use, you just need a fitting to match the type 50 nitrogen coupling on the nitrogen bottle.

 

[danestead]

All CO2 regs are suitable for nitrogen use, you just need a fitting to match the type 50 nitrogen coupling on the nitrogen bottle.

As long as they are capable of 2000psi

Edit: corrected psi

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Ahh your right, forgot that N2 is at a much higher pressure. Thanks.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

So full list of parts required from scratch is;

Drilled fridge $100
Mix gas bottle $170 pa
Gas & beer lines $30
Line connectors $50
Stout tap $140
Tap shank $45
Keg $70
Regulator $90

Total apprx = $695

Getting a bit steep!

To be fair you'd also have a kegerator for normal beers.....

 

[Black n Tan]

I am setting up a nitrogen system for dispensing stout and english creamy ales. I have a stout tap (Krone brand), supamix (70:30 N2:CO2) gas bottle and nitrogen reg. I am going to keg by dry stout and Irish red ale tomorrow, but have a few questions.

It would seem that the stout should be served at 1.2 CO2 volumes. Is this correct? Does anyone have a recommendation for CO2 volumes for an Irish red ale dispensed on nitrogen? Same as the stout? Anyway I planned to hook the kegs up to straight CO2 in my lagering fridge for a few days before putting it on the nitrogen system for dispensing. However carbonation calculators tell me I need negative pressure to get to 1.2 volumes CO2 i.e. I assume this means that residual CO2 from fermentation is greater than 1.2 vols of CO2 (I rested the stout at 23C for a few days). So what should I do? Should I just give it a burst of 200kPa Supamix and than lager? I see the earlier recommendation are to dispense at 200kPa. My dispensing fridge is currently set to 4C (I know it is a little cool for stout, but it has other beers in it, I guess I could increase it to 6C) which means that at 200kPa 70:30 mix will give me about 2.2 volumes of CO2. The advice for 1.2 volumes of CO2, but a dispense pressure of 200kPa seems incongruous. So what is the correct CO2 volume for a guinness style stout served on nitro?

Another question, is about balancing my lines. Does anyone have a starting recommendation for the length of 5mm ID line?

 

[danestead]

 

I am setting up a nitrogen system for dispensing stout and english creamy ales. I have a stout tap (Krone brand), supamix (70:30 N2:CO2) gas bottle and nitrogen reg. I am going to keg by dry stout and Irish red ale tomorrow, but have a few questions.
 
It would seem that the stout should be served at 1.2 CO2 volumes. Is this correct? Does anyone have a recommendation for CO2 volumes for an Irish red ale dispensed on nitrogen? Same as the stout? Anyway I planned to hook the kegs up to straight CO2 in my lagering fridge for a few days before putting it on the nitrogen system for dispensing. However carbonation calculators tell me I need negative pressure to get to 1.2 volumes CO2 i.e. I assume this means that residual CO2 from fermentation is greater than 1.2 vols of CO2 (I rested the stout at 23C for a few days). So what should I do? Should I just give it a burst of 200kPa Supamix and than lager? I see the earlier recommendation are to dispense at 200kPa. My dispensing fridge is currently set to 4C (I know it is a little cool for stout, but it has other beers in it, I guess I could increase it to 6C) which means that at 200kPa 70:30 mix will give me about 2.2 volumes of CO2. The advice for 1.2 volumes of CO2, but a dispense pressure of 200kPa seems incongruous. So what is the correct CO2 volume for a guinness style stout served on nitro?
 
Another question, is about balancing my lines. Does anyone have a starting recommendation for the length of 5mm ID line?

G'day mate,

I use the same length line on my nitro tap as I do on my CO2 beers. As for carbing it with CO2 before hooking it up to the nitrogen, you could hook up the CO2 at 45psi and shake the keg for 5 or 10 seconds and once it's settled down from all the shaking (half hour) you could hook it up to the Nitrogen pour a glass and see if that was enough. Personally, I just hook it up to the nitrogen at 30psi (30psi is the serving pressure you want for a 70:30 type mix) and wait a week or so to slowly carb itself up but I know it can be tempting to have a beer the day you keg it!

 

[Black n Tan]

Thanks for the response. 30psi nitro mix would give 9psi CO2, so I may just give it a few days on CO2 somewhere south of 9psi and see how it goes. Cheers Grant

 

[danestead]

Thanks for the response. 30psi nitro mix would give 9psi CO2, so I may just give it a few days on CO2 somewhere south of 9psi and see how it goes. Cheers Grant

Hmmmm, don't let me stop you however I don't think it is as easy at multiplying the 30psi by 30% (your CO2 content). It just doesn't sound right at all. 9 psi on straight CO2 at about 4 degrees will give you about 2.25 volumes of CO2. Far more than you want when you will be pouring it through a nitro tap with a restrictor disk. I am pretty certain that will end up in a glass of head. As I said, don't let me stop you however I'd tread very carefully and I wouldn't be leaving it sit at 9 psi for more than a couple of days.

 

[Black n Tan]

Hmmmm, don't let me stop you however I don't think it is as easy at multiplying the 30psi by 30% (your CO2 content). It just doesn't sound right at all. 9 psi on straight CO2 at about 4 degrees will give you about 2.25 volumes of CO2. Far more than you want when you will be pouring it through a nitro tap with a restrictor disk. I am pretty certain that will end up in a glass of head. As I said, don't let me stop you however I'd tread very carefully and I wouldn't be leaving it sit at 9 psi for more than a couple of days.

That is exactly my concern as you will see in post 76. I am not really comfortable setting my CO2 reg to 9psi (may even 12 psi, see below), but this is what I calculate 30spi of mixed gas would supply. Let me explain, Dalton's law states that the total pressure of a mixture of gases is equal to the sum of the partial pressures of the individual gases in the mixture and the partial pressure is directly relate to the number of mols of the gas. Now if I assume the 70:30 (N2:CO2) supamix gas is based on weight (not mols) then it is 60:40 on a molar basis. This would suggest at a 30psi supagas mix will provide a C02 partial pressure of 12 psi (which is even worse) and N2 partial pressure of 18 psi. This is my concern that setting the reg at 30psi for the supagas mix will over carbonate my stout. I am more than happy for a geek to explain if I have calculated this wrongly.