Getting rid of that "homebrew taste"

[yum beer]

A big problem with I think we have with mega-swillers is the way there beer is marketed.
VB....its name says bitter, so it must be...bitter. Give them any more IBU's and your ******* with their head.
I had the brother and his mate over recently and the brother always smashes a few home brews in to himself, going 'wow thats tasty' then returns to his TED's.
I was swigging on a bottle of Warsteiner and offered both a swig to try, brother's raised an eye and said yum, his mate just said it was way too bitter.......'you don't want an Urquell then....'

There is a very strong underlying home brew fear in a lot of people...Dads made dodgy brews, uncle Bob made rocket fuel, the guy next door blows up the garage every other week.
When the mates come over just pour some beers into glasses and give it to them.....don't know too many who'll knock back a freebie...if they don't like it then well nothing you can do, you just might find they ask for another or next time their over they might ask to imbide in one of your tasty beverages.

+1 for the AG push. Been Ag now for 18 months, recently made a Coopers Recipe of the Month(Anzac Ale)...prize from local show(1st place Pale Ale...a slightly adjusted DSGA)...and although it had some nice flavours it still stung of 'twang', I sold 2 cartons to my little bro'...he'll drink anything.

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

Is there anyone out there who is brewing light bodied lagers without the use of kegs? The type that pour clear at cold temps of course.

My friend yes there is and I am one of them, I normally do 25 to 28 litre batches so I keg 19 and bottle the rest of each brew and never had chill haze in bottles or keg, I don't use any clearing in the fermenter just a process I found on here ages ago, can't find it know but it's to do with a lagering principle of dropping temp by a degree per day until about 1 degree c

Years ago I did a coopers cerveza kit with the coopers enhancer number 2 or 1 can't remember and the kit yeast fermented cold, CPBF into corona bottles and no one knew the difference, reality is in the perception make them think its swill they will drink and love, then tell them it's home crafted with care and they will change there thinking, then you have the next problem they'll drink all your beers

 

[beno1]

When i do my partial / extract beers now . I chuck the cracked grains in a cheesecloth bag or grain and steep for the required time at the required temp. I just give it a bit of a poke and squeeze every now and then. My question is when i move to all grain can i use that same process rather than actually mashing the grains etc. if i did mash then it would mean i would need to strain it off after? Sorry if i sound like an idiot but i need to know.

 

[beno1]

Also with the grains that buy whats the best way to crush them ? And also how fine should they be crushed to? Maybe the brew show can do that for me in not sure

 

[TimT]

Your system sounds essentially the same as brew in a bag.

I crack my grains in a blender! Usually do smaller runs - but grains for 25 litres is perfectly doable.

 

[MartinOC]

With steeping grains, temperature control isn't that important, 'cos they're effectively "dead" & you're just making a kind of "tea" (70-80C is fine). When you get to AG mashing, temperature control is where the fun comes-in & you need to control it.

The crushing of steeped grains is not important, 'cos all you're doing is extracting colour & flavour.

The crush for mashed grains will make a difference to your extraction & efficiency.

Don't get hung-up on this stuff until you want to get into AG.

 

[yum beer]

Follow the links in post #10 plenty of great info, especially the BIAB for $30 thread.
You LHBS will mill your grain for you.

 

[carpedaym]

I want to reiterate a couple of the comments about conditioning time.

My last brew was an extract+steeping grain pale ale, and after 3-4 weeks I was thinking... "hmm, not as good as my previous attempts, maybe there is an 'extract twang' after all."

Now they've had about 8 weeks on them I'm much happier and any faults are on me/recipe construction, rather than due to the extract.

Has anyone mentioned a cold crash before bottling to help with clarification and brighten up the flavour?

 

[beno1]

Im going to be doing my first AG next week after. My fermenter is free. I think ive got it all under control and ready to experiment for the first time. Just one thing im not 100% sure on is the grain as long as its just cracked it will be fine? It doesnt beed to be grinded up so its fine ?

 

[carpedaym]

my recent Fat Yak clone is very close to Fat Yak

Off topic, but is your fat yak recipe posted anywhere linkable?

 

[carpedaym]

Cracked is all you need. Check whether your LHBS will do this you you, a lot do this as a free service. If so, they will know the best crush and you don't have to worry about it.

If not, I think there is a Brew Strong episode on milling grain with all the info you could ever want on the topic (except, perhaps, the best options if you don't have a grain mill. But armed with knowledge, one can begin to improvise.)

 

[yum beer]

Tell your LHBS your grain is for BIAB, you want it a little finer than normal, a bit of extra 'flour' helps with your effiiciency

 

[beno1]

When I was partial mash I was using up to 3kgs of grains pretty regularly. TasChris then kicked my arse into gear as it slowly dawned on me that I could make smaller all-grain batches with that 3kg of grains or could bump it up to 4 or 5kgs and do full size batches etc.

If YOU are happy then don't worry - but if you can taste 'that homebrew taste' and want to do something about (and you think your yeast handling and fermentation schedule is up to it), then why not try going all-grain?

There are excellent threads on this site to help you, such as:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/38674-move-to-all-grain-for-thirty-bucks/

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/44264-20l-stovetop-all-grain-aussie-lager/

and many, many more (type in your search words, click on 'forums' and change it to google, click on the magnifying glass to search and DONE). :icon_cheers:






EEK! I've become THAT guy…the one who recommends just going AG as the cure-all. Won't be long and I'll be answering bottling questions with 'buy some kegs' haha.

i am from adelaide any idea where i can buy these grains in bulk ? I want to get them cheap. My homebrew store sells em for approx $16 for 2 kgs

 

[manticle]

You can get grain posted or couriered from site sponsors like craftbrewer or grain and grape. Otherwise try Nige from brew adelaide or beer belly - both SA.

 

[zarniwoop]

Off topic, but is your fat yak recipe posted anywhere linkable?

I can't claim credit for this one I'm afraid, it's pretty close, not exact but close and I'd say better:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1510-fatter-yak/

 

[Bribie G]

Getting off topic, but when you modify an Italian Marga Mill for malt milling purposes you need to drill a new guide hole. The unit comes with several guide holes for fine pasta flour, bread flour, coarse flour and groats. There's a guide on the forum as to where to drill the hole to give you a roller spacing for cracking malt.

I drilled as directed and found it was pretty good, about what you would get crushed by CraftBrewer or others. Then I drilled a hole half way between that and the Italian Mamma da Groats hole and it's the perfect crush for BIAB.

 

[beno1]

When I was partial mash I was using up to 3kgs of grains pretty regularly. TasChris then kicked my arse into gear as it slowly dawned on me that I could make smaller all-grain batches with that 3kg of grains or could bump it up to 4 or 5kgs and do full size batches etc.

If YOU are happy then don't worry - but if you can taste 'that homebrew taste' and want to do something about (and you think your yeast handling and fermentation schedule is up to it), then why not try going all-grain?

There are excellent threads on this site to help you, such as:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/38674-move-to-all-grain-for-thirty-bucks/

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/44264-20l-stovetop-all-grain-aussie-lager/

and many, many more (type in your search words, click on 'forums' and change it to google, click on the magnifying glass to search and DONE). :icon_cheers:






EEK! I've become THAT guy…the one who recommends just going AG as the cure-all. Won't be long and I'll be answering bottling questions with 'buy some kegs' haha.

i actrully brewed that AG recipe and only ended up with 6 litres instead of 9 not sure what went wrong.

 

[Bribie G]

Did you sparge?

 

[beno1]

Did you sparge?

I squeezed the grains and then dunked in 1 litre of 70 degree water. Like the recipe said. i boiled in a 19

 

[beno1]

I squeezed the grains and then dunked in 1 litre of 70 degree water. Like the recipe said. i boiled in a 19 litre pot which is fairly open. So where i lost it was in the boil. I should have started with 14 litres

 

[popmedium]

For me it was sanitisation. I would rarely ever get an actual infection - say, a Pericles on top or spores or anything else that makes you want to puke - but I found that I had some chinks in my process that resulted in beers that just weren't "clean". I'm Still working it out but my last half dozen have been sans "Homebrew"taste.

What did I do? I simplified my process

- started using dry yeast, hydrated. Did this to remove some of the danger zones that pop up when making starters
- started no chilling instead of using my immersion chiller. Chilling was, I think, my biggest weak point.
- never open the fermenter. I only open if I'm worried about the gravity. I get some wort out real fast and seal the cube back up as fast as possible.
- dry hopping - I stopped using bags. I never imagined a bag could be a weak point as I used to boil them, then rinse in star San. Still, one time I wracked to a no chill cube and dropped a bag of hops straight in, sealed it up. I didn't get a chance to pitch for a week and when I got to it the cube had swelled and there was a thin film on top of the wort. Free ball FTW.

And then I started to adding some if these elements back in, like using liquid yeasts and starters.

All that stuff worked for me. Be critical of your process and take the time to get it right.

Good luck!

 

[pist]

I was doing kits and then extract...i improved my processes continuously seeing small leaps in beer quality until i hit that wall...where what i could taste was that "twang" as many like to call it...which is something which really frustrated me and i was not enjoying drinking what i was making which then led me to giving it away. Having to drink megaswill rubbish down the local as there was nothing else made me long for a cheaper alternative to craft beer (can be an expensive exercise buying craft beer to drink on a regular basis), which then led me to having a crack at all grain (biab). So i welded a nipple/ball balve into an old keg i had and built a stand to house a gas burner. It wasnt until i took this step that my beers went from bordering on undrinkable to even bringing comments out of friends who are big fans of craft beer such as "holy **** this is really nice". From my experiences i believe that theres only so much you can do to hide the distinct taste of malt extracts its not until you take that jump into all grain that you will reap the rewards

 

[carniebrew]

I'm not personally convinced that it's simply malt extract causing 'that homebrew taste', as I've had too many extract beers that don't have it. Maybe it's old extract, lack of temperature controlled fermentation, kit yeast with malt extract, some combo thereof, I don't know...but surely anyone who reads "Brewing Classic Styles", which contains hundreds of award winning extract-based recipes has got to wonder how they could win so many awards if all extract beers had "twang".

I've also had many beers from UBrewIT before I moved to home brewing, and I don't recall any of them having "twang", despite UBrewIT exclusively using malt extract (sitting in their warehouse in 44 gallon drums).

I see BribieG posting in another thread about a ripping beer he's just made using a Coopers kit can, I'm not sure he'd be loving it so much if it had 'twang'?

I know it's controversial, but I'm pretty convinced 'twang' is more likely caused by the brewer (via either their choices or their process), not the extract.

 

[skb]

I have to say I also found that homebrew taste for the first few years of extract brewing, and slowly got rid of it and my beers are generally liked by most.... The things I did that I found made the biggest difference were :

1) Never used the yeast that came with the extract
2) Always ferment at the low end of the temp scale
--- I found this got rid of a very large portion

3) I then tried fermenting and leaving it for a lot longer (my largers I do for 21 days !! and Ales at least 14)... I know some people think this can give funny flavours, but I found the exact opposite.

-- with this I got 99% of the way.

My last step and I have no and I mean no idea but would like to hear from people who know why.. But for my ales especially the more flavoured ones with oak etc, or my wheat beers I would keg them and leave them for 10 weeks or so prior to consumption !! and bingo.

---------------- All of the above was extract only, I use to every now and then do a mini mash of carapils grain (eg 100g) and it added just that little more.

This year I am converting to BIAB and did first very basic beer on weekend with my neigbour, keen to see how I go. We did drink a lot of my other homebrew while making the homebrew I might add.

 

[Bribie G]

The kit I used was the lightest possible one, Canadian Blonde, and the beer is an American Cream Ale, that would be well received by lager drinkers. In retrospect my statement that " a partial just isn't going to do it " was a bit harsh.. more a case of a kit and kilo and a few bits isn't going to do it would have been more accurate.

So I'll rephrase it: a partial will get you in the ball park so long as you use a very light kit, have a good understanding of mashing, temperature control and use a good yeast where you know what characteristics it will impart. Also hop lightly to give a background hoppiness but nothing too " in your face ". You can brew something that will definitely impress your Carlton drinking buddies and is an excellent quaffer, but to really replicate the likes of VB or XXXX is a hard task. And rewarding if you can get that far.

 

[vittorio]

force carbonate in a keg makes it look and taste like real brewery beer

 

[markjam]

... I don't know...but surely anyone who reads "Brewing Classic Styles", which contains hundreds of award winning extract-based recipes has got to wonder how they could win so many awards if all extract beers had "twang".

I could be wrong but my understanding was that all the recipes in "Brewing Classic Styles" were originally done as all-grain and were then converted to extract for the book as that's the most popular method in the US and will sell more books. So the 'award winning' versions were all-grain, not extract - I think.

 

[carniebrew]

I could be wrong but my understanding was that all the recipes in "Brewing Classic Styles" were originally done as all-grain and were then converted to extract for the book as that's the most popular method in the US and will sell more books. So the 'award winning' versions were all-grain, not extract - I think.

Other way around actually markjam, which is what makes the book so interesting. In the introduction on page 1, both John and Jamil talk about how initially the book was going to be called "how to brew great beer with extract", but then they decided to turn it into a book of extract recipes, with descriptions of each style. It was also late in the writing that they decided to put AG options in for each recipe too.

 

[Bribie G]

I read an interesting article somewhere and can't locate it, but it went something like this:

Prohibition: most breweries closed down and never reopened.
The ones that hung on did so by making "near beer", malted milk drinks, ingredients for Mars bars etc and MALT EXTRACT

Home bootleg brewing using LME was huge, I even remember a Laurel and Hardy episode where they had a crack. That's also when carboys came into use as Coopers fermenters hadn't been invented :unsure: .

All the bootlegger crime gang underground breweries used LME which is why they could continue underground without huge malting and mashing facilities, they just needed fermenters and a barrel filling line.

After Prohibition, home brewing automatically meant LME, end of story, and it's stuck ever since in the USA, including the use of carboys.

 

[markjam]

Other way around actually markjam, which is what makes the book so interesting. In the introduction on page 1, both John and Jamil talk about how initially the book was going to be called "how to brew great beer with extract", but then they decided to turn it into a book of extract recipes, with descriptions of each style. It was also late in the writing that they decided to put AG options in for each recipe too.

Page 34 - "The recipes in this book were originally created as all-grain, full-volume boil recipes, but we have created malt extract versions to make them more accessible for new brewers"