Getting rid of that "homebrew taste"

[beno1]

Ive just made a simple cascade type ale. 2.8kg LDM extract
450gms of crystal grain
Steep until hits 170 deg
15 min boil
Cascade 15 min 70gms
Cascade 5 min28gms
Cascade 0 min15 u
Dry hop cascade 25 gms for 7 days when
Notty yeast

Very simple as i didnt have a huge amount of time up my sleeve.

Im trying a red ale next
4 kg of BB pale malt grain
350g caraaroma
500 g carared
500 g caramunich
20 g of roasted malt
250g natural honey
Steep at 67 deg for 60 min

30g East kent golding hops 60min

20g east kent golding 20min

Us o5 or nottingham yeast

 

[zarniwoop]

As others have pointed out it's a bit of a two issue problem - are they just megaswill drinkers or is it your beer? Chances are it's 90% them and 10% improvements you could make but even if you make those improvements they'll probably never notice as they are blind to the greatness of ales etc

One thing that I've done in the past is a blind beer tasting night: get about 20 different beers, everything from Hahn Ice to top end craft beer (nothing weird though) and get someone who's not participating and close to sober to pour them without the participants knowing what they're drinking, everyone has a sheet with numbers on that they can write what they thought of each beer and the person serving has a master copy that they note which beer is which, in the morning review the results and you may actually shock and convert a mate or two. If nothing else then it's a good laugh to see how the quality of the comments deteriorates as the night moves on. :chug:

General improvements to your beer are normally achieved by a whole series of different things which have already been mentioned or you are already doing (temp control, pitching rates, aging etc etc), the biggest single improvement I've made ( and I really hate to be the second one to say this) is to go to brew in a bag AG, it took a few brews to get it right but it's lost that extract "twang" that can sometimes occur, my recent Fat Yak clone is very close to Fat Yak and some have even said they prefer it which I'm pretty happy with. But.... if you're just chasing the commercial lager taste the you will always struggle as they do a variety of funky things to that which which I'll leave to others with more knowledge to talk about and you won't be able to do at home.

So to recap: Phase one, convert mates to drinking real beer rather than diluted rat urine, phase 2: general improvements to brewing process for the sake of your own enjoyment.

 

[jyo]

I don't try to convert people anymore. If they want to try a beer, they can. When people turn their nose up at a tasty AG low hopped blonde ale or a well brewed commercial lager like a Weihenstephaner pils and go back to a carlton dry or carlton cold, I just give up.

 

[Bribie G]

Commercial beers are very well made indeed. They are not crap beers, any more than a Toyota Camry is a crap car. Boring and bland, yes, but actually made to the highest standards. Breweries spend millions employing yeast scientists, engineers, graduate brewers and source the best ingredients on the market plus the best temperature controlled computer operated brewing gear to turn out identical batches time after time.

They do this because there is a demand for their product from people who do not particulary see craft beers as being for them. Much in the same way that Coon Cheese isn't going to close down soon just because there is Imported Danish Havarti or Dutch Maasdam or Goats milk Bulgarian Fetta out there.

Just like Tip Top bread, commercial mainstream pale lagers are going to be the sliced white loaf of beer drinkers for decades to come.

If you want to try and emulate them, it is one of the hardest home brewing exercises and, from experience, I'd say you won't do it with partials. Sorry.
You have nothing to hide behind if you don't get the process spot on. You can't chuck in some extra hops or some extra malt as you would with an APA or a stout, isn't going to work.

At the risk of sounding immodest, but on topic for this thread, I won a second place gong in the Pale Lagers at the Nats just gone with a Premium Australian Lager, and it's taken me 6 years to get there.

Use the same ingredients they do: domestic pilsener malt and cane sugar that's right cane sugar *
Use Pride of Ringwood Hops
Use a Danish style lager yeast similar to the Fosters B strain (Recommend Wyeast Danish Lager)

Mash to a certain and precise schedule: 62 degrees for two hours then raise quickly to a short mashout at 78
Ferment to their typical schedule with the above yeast .. start at 13 degrees for a few days then let rise to around 19 degrees to finish
Lager for 10 days at -1

Ideally filter it, but in any case take the most stringent steps to avoid yeast carry over and chill haze (recommend brewbright)

Serve blisteringly cold.

Personally I prefer to make UK style real ales and the visitors can bring their own VB if they prefer.

*Cane sugar is used in Aussie beers historically to adjust the results from the often dodgy barleys that were grown in the colony. Also, for much of the 20th century pubs closed at 6 pm, giving rise to the six o'clock swill when workers would crowd into bars that were tiled like urinals and would swill down as much piss as possible, sometimes standing with legs outspread and ten or twelve pots on the floor between them. The beer had to be light in body and easily sunk schooner after schooner after schooner, so sugar was essential in the brew and it's stayed there.

 

[MartinOC]

Ps i do agree that HB taste a lot better than commercial beers and i am happy with my brews but i was just wondering what could be done to make it similar to a commercial beer. I tried a mate of mines HB the other night was asashi style jap beer. I couldnt tell the diffrence between the commercial version and his. A bit of a boring beer tho

Mate, the reason HB tastes better than commercial megaswill is because it has FLAVOUR! Every time I've given one of my HB's to a megaswill drinker, I always preface it with "Be prepared for something you've probably not experienced in beer before - FLAVOUR". Then I walk them through how it's different & what they're tasting. The usual response is "**** me! Is THAT what real beer is supposed to taste like?!?!?!"

I'd advise NOT to try to emulate commercial beers (except the good ones, of course! ). After all, why would you want to? The stuff you're experimenting with is probably far superior anyway! You're doing it to drink better beer, not something churned-out by accountants.

Screw the nay-sayers!

 

[fletcher]

Use the same ingredients they do: domestic pilsener malt and cane sugar that's right cane sugar *
Use Pride of Ringwood Hops
Use a Danish style lager yeast similar to the Fosters B strain (Recommend Wyeast Danish Lager)

Mash to a certain and precise schedule: 62 degrees for two hours then raise quickly to a short mashout at 78
Ferment to their typical schedule with the above yeast .. start at 13 degrees for a few days then let rise to around 19 degrees to finish
Lager for 10 days at -1

Ideally filter it, but in any case take the most stringent steps to avoid yeast carry over and chill haze (recommend brewbright)

Serve blisteringly cold.

i'm gonna try that one myself bribie! i wanna see if i can get it too (doubt it but why not try?

 

[of mice and gods]

whoa deja vu..

try doing a search for vb/cd/xxxx/australian bitter lager recipes on this site (depending on the flavour your mates drink and want to emulate). It's not that uncommon to want to try and do a please-all mates beer as you will find. However, you may find it hard to perfectly replicate the exact flavours without some heft science, equipment and dollars. But what you can do is probably going to be a slightly better beer anyway as it's brewed to a standard, not a budget.

Al

 

[jpanic]

If it's any help, when I was starting out, the number one way I eliminated the distinctive "home brew" taste was controlling the fermentation temperature. In Brisbane especially, room temperature fermenting I think creates a very recognisable "home brew" taste.

Strongly recommend the jump to all-grain as well. My mates and I went from occasional extract brewing at room temperature, to BIAB in an urn, and temperature-controlled fermentation. It makes a world of difference and eliminated the "home brew" taste and is now, although with detectable flaws to be eliminated and potential benefits to be achieved, at a level comparable to decent craft beers.

 

[Beerisyummy]

Hi Beno1,

Nothing wrong with trying to please your mates buddy. I'm guessing you've shared quite a few rounds of bland megaswill over the years with them.
There's more to sharing a few rounds than the beer itself.

I recently had this "homebrew taste" conversation with some of the familia in Darwin. In my mind it came down to several things, but the two most important were the flavour and clarity in relation to mainstream beers.

Piss off the cans and use a recipe like Bribie G's for some awesome flavour results. Sorachi ace works well (along with many others), and if you feel like it, you can do away with the cane sugar and/or try the Whitelabs German lager yeast.
That's all down to personal preference though.

Unfortunately, I think kegging is the only sensible way to get the clarity thing down pat in a reasonable timeframe with minimal fuss. AFAIK.

Is there anyone out there who is brewing light bodied lagers without the use of kegs? The type that pour clear at cold temps of course.

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Some of the stuff I read here is funny. Not shor where but I've seen it posted that people say when asked to describe home brew what do they think? Wow it's bitter!! My wife did this for ages till I found Sierra Nevada southern hemisphere. She tasted that (which I feel is a good drop) and then became "beer taster" . My brews are like Sierra hoppy and hopefully tasty. This is the trick I think not many plp know a good drop.

 

[yum beer]

A big problem with I think we have with mega-swillers is the way there beer is marketed.
VB....its name says bitter, so it must be...bitter. Give them any more IBU's and your ******* with their head.
I had the brother and his mate over recently and the brother always smashes a few home brews in to himself, going 'wow thats tasty' then returns to his TED's.
I was swigging on a bottle of Warsteiner and offered both a swig to try, brother's raised an eye and said yum, his mate just said it was way too bitter.......'you don't want an Urquell then....'

There is a very strong underlying home brew fear in a lot of people...Dads made dodgy brews, uncle Bob made rocket fuel, the guy next door blows up the garage every other week.
When the mates come over just pour some beers into glasses and give it to them.....don't know too many who'll knock back a freebie...if they don't like it then well nothing you can do, you just might find they ask for another or next time their over they might ask to imbide in one of your tasty beverages.

+1 for the AG push. Been Ag now for 18 months, recently made a Coopers Recipe of the Month(Anzac Ale)...prize from local show(1st place Pale Ale...a slightly adjusted DSGA)...and although it had some nice flavours it still stung of 'twang', I sold 2 cartons to my little bro'...he'll drink anything.

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

Is there anyone out there who is brewing light bodied lagers without the use of kegs? The type that pour clear at cold temps of course.

My friend yes there is and I am one of them, I normally do 25 to 28 litre batches so I keg 19 and bottle the rest of each brew and never had chill haze in bottles or keg, I don't use any clearing in the fermenter just a process I found on here ages ago, can't find it know but it's to do with a lagering principle of dropping temp by a degree per day until about 1 degree c

Years ago I did a coopers cerveza kit with the coopers enhancer number 2 or 1 can't remember and the kit yeast fermented cold, CPBF into corona bottles and no one knew the difference, reality is in the perception make them think its swill they will drink and love, then tell them it's home crafted with care and they will change there thinking, then you have the next problem they'll drink all your beers

 

[beno1]

When i do my partial / extract beers now . I chuck the cracked grains in a cheesecloth bag or grain and steep for the required time at the required temp. I just give it a bit of a poke and squeeze every now and then. My question is when i move to all grain can i use that same process rather than actually mashing the grains etc. if i did mash then it would mean i would need to strain it off after? Sorry if i sound like an idiot but i need to know.

 

[beno1]

Also with the grains that buy whats the best way to crush them ? And also how fine should they be crushed to? Maybe the brew show can do that for me in not sure

 

[TimT]

Your system sounds essentially the same as brew in a bag.

I crack my grains in a blender! Usually do smaller runs - but grains for 25 litres is perfectly doable.

 

[MartinOC]

With steeping grains, temperature control isn't that important, 'cos they're effectively "dead" & you're just making a kind of "tea" (70-80C is fine). When you get to AG mashing, temperature control is where the fun comes-in & you need to control it.

The crushing of steeped grains is not important, 'cos all you're doing is extracting colour & flavour.

The crush for mashed grains will make a difference to your extraction & efficiency.

Don't get hung-up on this stuff until you want to get into AG.

 

[yum beer]

Follow the links in post #10 plenty of great info, especially the BIAB for $30 thread.
You LHBS will mill your grain for you.

 

[carpedaym]

I want to reiterate a couple of the comments about conditioning time.

My last brew was an extract+steeping grain pale ale, and after 3-4 weeks I was thinking... "hmm, not as good as my previous attempts, maybe there is an 'extract twang' after all."

Now they've had about 8 weeks on them I'm much happier and any faults are on me/recipe construction, rather than due to the extract.

Has anyone mentioned a cold crash before bottling to help with clarification and brighten up the flavour?

 

[beno1]

Im going to be doing my first AG next week after. My fermenter is free. I think ive got it all under control and ready to experiment for the first time. Just one thing im not 100% sure on is the grain as long as its just cracked it will be fine? It doesnt beed to be grinded up so its fine ?

 

[carpedaym]

my recent Fat Yak clone is very close to Fat Yak

Off topic, but is your fat yak recipe posted anywhere linkable?