Gasing 50 Litre Kegs

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maark

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Hi all
Great forum.i have been researching for two nights and have most of the info i need.i am amazed at the whole scene..
This is my first brew and i am starting simple with a morgans kit...I have read so many posts on gasing,but have found no definitive answer on 50 lt kegs..
Is it the same as a 19lt?...Even though i am tempted to try rosses method first up i will resist and I am happy to do it over a couple of days...240 kpa for 48 hours or 300kpa for 24...
I will be syphoning from fermentor to keg then chilling in the fridge first...
so any of you guys using 50s,i would love your wisdom..

cheers mark
 

mxd

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Hi all
Great forum.i have been researching for two nights and have most of the info i need.i am amazed at the whole scene..
This is my first brew and i am starting simple with a morgans kit...I have read so many posts on gasing,but have found no definitive answer on 50 lt kegs..
Is it the same as a 19lt?...Even though i am tempted to try rosses method first up i will resist and I am happy to do it over a couple of days...240 kpa for 48 hours or 300kpa for 24...
I will be syphoning from fermentor to keg then chilling in the fridge first...
so any of you guys using 50s,i would love your wisdom..

cheers mark

I don't do 50's, but can you chill in fermenter for a few days (CC helps drop the yeast out so clear beer sooner (unless you filter then ignore me)).

If the 50 is to be full, I would apply gas to it as soon as it's in the keg and sample/try (e.g 300 kpa, try it after 24 hours, if it's close drop it back to serving, else give it another 12-24 hours).

good luck

matt
 

maark

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I don't do 50's, but can you chill in fermenter for a few days (CC helps drop the yeast out so clear beer sooner (unless you filter then ignore me)).

If the 50 is to be full, I would apply gas to it as soon as it's in the keg and sample/try (e.g 300 kpa, try it after 24 hours, if it's close drop it back to serving, else give it another 12-24 hours).

good luck

matt
i probably could chill in the fermenter,but it would involve stiring it up a bit while moving...i have been toying with the idea of filtering,but if i could get reasonable clear beer i wouldnt
 

gunbrew

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Hey Mark,
I run 23 ltr kegs, Mate of mine runs 50 ltr kegs.
Heres what he does.
Chill the beer in fermenter to about 4 degrees. (ideal for C02 absorbtion)
Hose transfer to your beer to your cleaned and sanitised 50ltr keg.
Close keg and apply C02, let it out and repeat so there can be no air in the keg or spear only C02.
Put keg in fridge attached to your C02 at 300kpa for 24 hours.

24 hours or so later test it, if close just let it finish at serving pressure.

I found the concept of kegging and force carbing a bit mind boggling at first then after a few times it's all ok.
Once you have done it a few times it will be easy.
Cheers.
 

brettprevans

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ok there are 2 issues

1 force carbing. this is a processes of forcing CO2 into a keg at extremely high pressure to help saturate the beer with CO2 faster. once carbed you turn the pressure down. thats what the ross method is. it doesnt matter what size vessel you use. its about pressure and time. now you can get into techincal fluid/gas mechanics and talk about the fact that an increased surface area provides wuicker gas absorvbtion etc, but its not neccesary to go into for your purposes.

- force kegging is useful to quickly carb something up. theres no other advantage. I dont force carb cause i dont have a need to unless im completely out of beer and desperately need to carb a brew thats just finished fermenting. however strickly speaking your beer should be having a bit of conditioning to reach peak condition, so there realy isnt a need to force carb. this sint a rule, but why force carb say a big belgian that needs to condition for 3 months before drinking. now ok you can drink a pretty plain aussie pale in about 2 days after fermentation, but still that might be enough to naturally carb up. since your using kits/tins I definitely reccomned some conditioning time.

2. size of vessel. to carb a 50L keg is the same as carbing a 10L keg or 19L keg. you add gas at desired serving pressure and wait until it carbs up. the volume of the vessel will determine how long it takes to carb. a bigger vessel will take more time. thats all.

now I use a 50L keg. and confirm that it takes longer to carb, thats all.

happy kegging.
 

David Browne

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Hey maark,

I have 50 litre kegs and what I do is transfer the beer from the fermenter to the keg. I burp the keg with C02 about 4 times on drinking pressure, getting rid of the oxygen and replacing it with CO2. I then leave the keg in the fridge with CO2 left on at drinking pressure for 24 hours. Once the beer in the keg is cold I turn the pressure up to 40 PSI or 380 KPA and leave for 24 hours. Just make sure the keg is not full to the brim to allow the CO2 to absorb in to the beer easier. After 24 hours release the pressure back to drinking pressure and serve and enjoy. My drinking pressure is about 8 PSI, this works on my keg system.
 

stux

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Hi all
Great forum.i have been researching for two nights and have most of the info i need.i am amazed at the whole scene..
This is my first brew and i am starting simple with a morgans kit...I have read so many posts on gasing,but have found no definitive answer on 50 lt kegs..
Is it the same as a 19lt?...Even though i am tempted to try rosses method first up i will resist and I am happy to do it over a couple of days...240 kpa for 48 hours or 300kpa for 24...
I will be syphoning from fermentor to keg then chilling in the fridge first...
so any of you guys using 50s,i would love your wisdom..

cheers mark
I don't know if the 300kpa for 24hrs applies to a 50. When I've done 9.5L kegs if I do 24hrs at 300kpa its WAAAAAY over carbonated! But a 19L is pretty good.

So, if its relative to the volume then you might need twice the time for 50L :)

BUT the 9.5 and 19L kegs have the same headspace, so perhaps they carb at the same rate. Whereas the 50L keg will probably have a larger headspace/surface area, and might carb faster than a 9.5 or 19L keg would... in which case, maybe 24 hrs is right!

Anyway, best thing to do is try it after 24 hrs ;)
 

bradsbrew

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ok there are 2 issues

1 force carbing. this is a processes of forcing CO2 into a keg at extremely high pressure to help saturate the beer with CO2 faster. once carbed you turn the pressure down. thats what the ross method is. it doesnt matter what size vessel you use. its about pressure and time. now you can get into techincal fluid/gas mechanics and talk about the fact that an increased surface area provides wuicker gas absorvbtion etc, but its not neccesary to go into for your purposes.

- force kegging is useful to quickly carb something up. theres no other advantage. I dont force carb cause i dont have a need to unless im completely out of beer and desperately need to carb a brew thats just finished fermenting. however strickly speaking your beer should be having a bit of conditioning to reach peak condition, so there realy isnt a need to force carb. this sint a rule, but why force carb say a big belgian that needs to condition for 3 months before drinking. now ok you can drink a pretty plain aussie pale in about 2 days after fermentation, but still that might be enough to naturally carb up. since your using kits/tins I definitely reccomned some conditioning time.

2. size of vessel. to carb a 50L keg is the same as carbing a 10L keg or 19L keg. you add gas at desired serving pressure and wait until it carbs up. the volume of the vessel will determine how long it takes to carb. a bigger vessel will take more time. thats all.

now I use a 50L keg. and confirm that it takes longer to carb, thats all.

happy kegging.
Isn't force carbonating just using C02 to carbonate your keg. Whereas Ross' method is fast force carbonating? If you weren't to force carbonate you would be naturally carbonating by adding a fermentable to the keg and allowing to carbonate.

Cheers
 

maark

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thanks everyone for the fast replies..i think i will transfer to keg,burp out all oxygen with co2,put in the fridge until it gets down to temp.then gas for 24 hours...
Is it worth syphoning from the top to decrease cloudyness?..i dont mind a bit of sediment,but would like to be able to see through the beer at least...i am a bit concerned that if i move the fermenter to the fridge i will just stir it up more...
i am really looking forward to trying this brew...but would it be better to leave it sit in either the fermenter,or the fridge for a while to allow it to taste better?

cheers mark
 

maark

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ok there are 2 issues

1 force carbing. this is a processes of forcing CO2 into a keg at extremely high pressure to help saturate the beer with CO2 faster. once carbed you turn the pressure down. thats what the ross method is. it doesnt matter what size vessel you use. its about pressure and time. now you can get into techincal fluid/gas mechanics and talk about the fact that an increased surface area provides wuicker gas absorvbtion etc, but its not neccesary to go into for your purposes.

- force kegging is useful to quickly carb something up. theres no other advantage. I dont force carb cause i dont have a need to unless im completely out of beer and desperately need to carb a brew thats just finished fermenting. however strickly speaking your beer should be having a bit of conditioning to reach peak condition, so there realy isnt a need to force carb. this sint a rule, but why force carb say a big belgian that needs to condition for 3 months before drinking. now ok you can drink a pretty plain aussie pale in about 2 days after fermentation, but still that might be enough to naturally carb up. since your using kits/tins I definitely reccomned some conditioning time.

2. size of vessel. to carb a 50L keg is the same as carbing a 10L keg or 19L keg. you add gas at desired serving pressure and wait until it carbs up. the volume of the vessel will determine how long it takes to carb. a bigger vessel will take more time. thats all.

now I use a 50L keg. and confirm that it takes longer to carb, thats all.

happy kegging.
i like this method.How much conditioning time would you recommend?..and is the warm or cold conditioning?...and how long does it take you to carb a 50L keg at drinking pressure?

cheers mark
 

Thefatdoghead

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I have a 50L keg but iv'e only just filled it for the first time with Nelson savin summer ale :icon_drool2: so I cant say how long it would take at serving pressure but it takes about 1 week to gas a coni keg of 19L @ 70kpa and 3 degrees so at a guess I reckon it would take a couple of weeks but thats just a guess. I might even try force carb the big baaaarsted and let it settle for a few days.
 

Lillywhite

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I have found what works for some doesn't for others, I have tried various force carb methods with mixed success.

All I do these days is crash chill in the fermenter before I keg, chuck the keg in my beer fridge, attach the gas, burp and leave the gas on at 10psi and after 4 or 5 days all is good, after another week head has formed and all is better.

I should mention I only have 19l kegs but imagine it would simply take a little longer with 50l, you just have to sample it every day or so.
 

alfadog

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you could always just leave it at the desired pressure (for me it is 150kPa...ish) and shake it every now and then, within a few days it is at full carbonation and there is no risk of over-carbonation
 

brettprevans

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I lobe how posters dont read whats already posted commebt 'i do.thavd s 50L keg but'... And obviously have nfi as tbey dont get gas/fluid dynamics, havent read posts or have 50L kegs
 

maark

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I lobe how posters dont read whats already posted commebt 'i do.thavd s 50L keg but'... And obviously have nfi as tbey dont get gas/fluid dynamics, havent read posts or have 50L kegs
I am trying to learn and really dont need that...i may have nfi but have been smashing this forum looking for answers...if you dont want to answer my post then fair enough( i appreciated your last post) but please dont be a knob,i am openly asking for help and need more details about what you initialy wrote...sorry if i am not some brewing die hard.i really hope my ineptnous makes you feel superior..i have a life and that is why i ask questions of people who have a great deal of knowledge..that is what a forum is all about...and please dont give me the search lecture.i have spent the last 3 nights searching
 

brettprevans

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I am trying to learn and really dont need that...i may have nfi but have been smashing this forum looking for answers...if you dont want to answer my post then fair enough( i appreciated your last post) but please dont be a knob,i am openly asking for help and need more details about what you initialy wrote...sorry if i am not some brewing die hard.i really hope my ineptnous makes you feel superior..i have a life and that is why i ask questions of people who have a great deal of knowledge..that is what a forum is all about...and please dont give me the search lecture.i have spent the last 3 nights searching
mark I wasnt talking about u. Ive already answered ur question on the fourthpost. So settle. I was referring to other posters just before my post. One might have thought u'd read all the posts...thats what a forums for..
 

Wimmig

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I remember seeing in a US homebrew mag there was a custom coupler which was for homebrewers to carb commerical kegs with. Doubt i'll be able to find it, i'll have a look though. I picked it up from ESB while i was there, mostly in B&W.
 

maark

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mark I wasnt talking about u. Ive already answered ur question on the fourthpost. So settle. I was referring to other posters just before my post. One might have thought u'd read all the posts...thats what a forums for..
i apologise..i misunderstood...

How much conditioning time would you recommend?..and is the warm or cold conditioning?
also after the brew got up to 26 degrees i put it in the fridge for two days at 18 deg...it has cooled down nicely(20deg on sticker) but stopped bubbling...i took a reading (1008) and brought it out of the fridge back onto the bench to get ready to transfer to keg thinking it should be finished...It has started bubbling from airlock again..I started this brew on wednesday afternoon,so i am not worried at all...
Also.I have just order a temp control for my old fridge so my next brew should be better...and am toying with the idea of buying a cheap filter from ebay..I am wondering what i have got myself in for,havent even tasted the first brew and already buying stuff i probably dont need...lol

cheers mark
 

hopie89

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i apologise..i misunderstood...

How much conditioning time would you recommend?..and is the warm or cold conditioning?
also after the brew got up to 26 degrees i put it in the fridge for two days at 18 deg...it has cooled down nicely(20deg on sticker) but stopped bubbling...i took a reading (1008) and brought it out of the fridge back onto the bench to get ready to transfer to keg thinking it should be finished...It has started bubbling from airlock again..I started this brew on wednesday afternoon,so i am not worried at all...
Also.I have just order a temp control for my old fridge so my next brew should be better...and am toying with the idea of buying a cheap filter from ebay..I am wondering what i have got myself in for,havent even tasted the first brew and already buying stuff i probably dont need...lol

cheers mark
Haha sorry just had to reply and have a laugh at the last bit of this post. just wait until you start getting lectures from SWMBO about how home brewing was meant to save money but all you seem to do is spend it on more brewing gear.
Cheers,
Hopie
 

new2kegbrew

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Hey Maark
Please ignore my user name, if you look it shows you I was new to kegs in 2005.
I've been using 50 litre CUB kegs for about 4 years now.
I try to make a beer that is easy, yet tastes good. I drink Tooheys New when I can't drink my homebrew, so that gives you an idea of my taste. You may want to stop reading now!
I agree with most of the other posters, but don't think you've received a definitive answer, and as all systems are different, I'm not sure you will. My system, after 4 years and one climate change ( I moved from Dubbo to Orange) I still get thrown a curveball. However, in 4 years I have only tipped out one keg due to it tasting bad. Again - Tooheys new drinker!
My method is to keg straight from the fermenter at room temp. Then burp the keg and store it at room temp for minimum of two weeks. I tend to have a brew in the fermenter pretty much constantly... As soon as a keg is empty I remove it from the fridge, wash it out and put my wort into the clean keg, burp and store. Now I have about 10 kegs, so this gives me plenty of time to let the keg sit until its turn in the fridge again. Yes, a lot of beer gets consumed here, but a keg can be stored for 12 months without it going bad... Maybe longer... I've never tried that!
Anyway, back to the gas. Once I put the keg in the fridge I hit it with about 400 Kpa of gas. Then turn off the gas.Anything higher sets of relief valves. So as the keg cools, it absorbs the gas... I usually leave it for a good 24 hours. After that, the keg is cold and the gas is absorbed.
Now about my fridge:
I managed to score one of those ice cream freezers you see at the servo or deli & bought a new thermostat to keep the freezer cold, but not at freezing. Easy job replacing the freezer thermostat with the new one, and now I can turn it down to below freezing ( which I never do) or up to 6 degrees. I keep it at about 1 degree on the gauge, which keeps the beer nice and cold, allows ice cubes to stay frozen on the floor of the freezer (for spirits for the mrs) and have insulated my lines out of the freezer to the flooded font on the bar. I keep a small enclosed container in the freezer with a fish tank pump in it to flow the very cold water in the container up through the font and back down to the container, giving my font a bit of a condensated look, but keeping the beer line and tap cold. I looked in to glycol ( what they use in the pubs to make the font ice up) but found the set up too $$$ and not enough variable. I have my fish tank pump to come on about 1/2 hour before I finish work, and turn off around 10. Plenty of time, and can be overridden if the need arises ;-)

So dispensing pressure is all about size and length of beer lines... You'll have to sort that one out, but if the beer is too heady, keep a 2 litre glass jug in the fridge and fill that from the keg after you poor a beer. The head will have dropped enough by the time you want another beer.
One important thing is to turn your gas off after a session, because even at the low dispensing pressure, sitting there with a little pressure on it will just keep making the keg frothier as the days go by.
Feel free to message me if you have any questions... Am always happy to help, and repay the help I have received from the great guys on this forum over the years!
 
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