Further Exposing My Beery Ignorance

[Muggus]

What you need to find yourself, Bum, is a good FRESH bottle of authentic English bitter.
Let me just reiterate the FRESH part because that's a very important factor in bitter beer, and more often that not, you wind up finding bottles close or past their best before dates in bottle 'os, and it's really not the same. Then again, having said that, bottled versions of this beers rarely compare to the real thing fresh from the cask! :icon_drool2:

If you can find them...i'd recommend Timothy Taylor Landlord, Fullers ESB and London Pride, Samuel Smiths IPA, Marstons Pedigree, Shepard Neame Bishops Finger...among several others.

Generally quite different beers than their US counterparts. As you mentioned earlier, malt plays a bigger part, often more prominant and can certainly be more complex. There's also a tendency to have a somewhat sharper/fuller bitterness, often due to hard British waters used in brewing. Also, fruity esters can be common place, particularly in maltier versions like Fullers ESB, which are less citrusy fruit characters, more plums and berries.
Overall, they can (and should!) be two very different styles!

 

[bum]

The TTL is already on the to-drink list - not so much as an answer to the question posed here but just because people absolutely rave about it. Haven't seen any of the names you mentioned about at my locals but will definitely keep an eye out when I'm further afield. In regard to the freshness issue, can you (anyone) think of a good second-best from a local brewer? I'm sure there are factors making it difficult to brew a true example here but I have no doubt someone must be trying hard enough to get most of the way there.

 

[Muggus]

I'm sure there are factors making it difficult to brew a true example here but I have no doubt someone must be trying hard enough to get most of the way there.

It's not so much a matter of using British hops to make a bitter, the authenticity lies in all of the ingredients.

There's a big difference between say British pale malt and Australian pale malt, and crystal malt, which is common place in this style. Once you've got a taste for it, you can tell quite easily if a beer hasn't used British malts.

The yeast, well easy enough, British strains all of the way, of which there are quite a number of and will also add to the beers flavour/body/style/etc.

Last of all, quite I briefly mentioned earlier, is the water profile. This is actually a pretty big deal, and can change a beers chemistry in a big way. Long story short (not good with chemistry) but British ales are typically made with mineral rich waters, such as the waters of Burton upon Trent, which tend to accentuate hop flavour and bitterness, not to mention giving the beer itself a distinct minerality, which is really hard to describe!

But yeah, like I say, more goes into making a bitter than just using the ingredients according to a recipe. The more authentic the ingredients are, the more authentic the beer is. Applies for this style probably more than others.

 

[stm]

In regard to the freshness issue, can you (anyone) think of a good second-best from a local brewer?

Mountain Goat Hightail Ale is a decent "english bitter".

 

[Ronin]

In regard to the freshness issue, can you (anyone) think of a good second-best from a local brewer?

I know 3 ravens make a english bitter. Until recently I haven't been too impressed with their beers, but I had the bitter on tap and I though it was really impressive. They can be hard to find, especially on tap.

Holgate also do an ESB that, last time I had it (admittedly several years ago) was quite good. Hand pumped too if you can get to Woodend.

Hargreaves Hill ESB has got quite a good reputation, although I've never had it.

I'm not sure if I'd call Hightail Ale an english bitter, too many american hops in there, too much citrus. Again though it has been a while since I've had one, too many other beers to drink. Not saying it's a bad beer, I love it. But it doesn't strike me as terrible english in the ingredients.

I'd definately recommend Meantime IPA if you want some hops in your beer. One of my favourite IPAs though is White Shield, which is a lot more malt driven than Meantime, but just as good.

Take the time to get up to Purvis Cellars in Surrey Hills. They've got a huge selection, I regularly make the trip from Geelong.

James

 

[bum]

My impression of the Hightail was that it was basically similar to the MGPA but with different hops. But you know, look at the title of the thread...

I've had the Holgate ESB (bottled) and while it wasn't awful it wasn't what I'm looking for but I do plan on getting up to the brewery (probably not until summer) and will give it another go on tap for sure. Both Meantime and White Shield IPAs are on the to-drink list (which is going to have to be taken out of my head and put on paper soon because it is becoming unmanageable in there!).

I will definitely go to Purvis when even slightly near that neck of the woods.

[edit: Went looking for all the suggested beers today. Was only lucky enough to find the Knappstein and got another Hightail to re-check. Picked up a Baron's Pale Ale, perhaps this might be on the money? Was actually hoping to get the Wattleseed but they didn't have it.)

 

[svyturys]

Bum,
Don't forget that the "environment" has a huge influence on what beer tastes like.

1) On a hot day your palate will seek something different than on a cold day.

2) The temp. at which the beer is served, (already mentioned) will alter the flavour profile.

3) The beer that you had tasted previously will alter the perception of the beer you are tasting currently.

I limit my tastings to two or three beers in a session and then do it at the beginning of the session and try to taste from "light to strong".

My HB experience started by spending consecutive summers in Europe. I was overwhelmed by the number of lagers and consequently got depressed on return to OZ. Going back in 2/52 with a mind to taste all the other beers that people were recommending that I just didn't have the palate to understand.

Cheers

 

[Renegade]

+1 to Point 3.

I generally only ever try a new beer as first-off-the rank, then the same one again if Ive bought two. I'll then switch to something I know for the rest of the night, and leave future new tasting s for the next session.

 

[Bribie G]

.................Going back in 2/52 with a mind to taste all the other beers that people were recommending that I just didn't have the palate to understand.

Cheers

I'll be 103 years old then so I don't think I'll be going with you :unsure:

I lived in Turkey for a year and the couple of beers there (lagers) weren't too bad but I would walk along the beach craving a couple of pints of Brains (Cardiff) S.A. - a typical malty UK bitter. Then on my return to Cardiff, sated on the S.A. I would search out lagers like Pilsener Urquell. No satisfying me, that's why I'm a home brewer :icon_cheers:

 

[PostModern]

I reckon an Alt would fit the bill. Try Batz's Alt from the recipe db.

And I second Geoffi's affinity for B Saaz, but I call it Motueka. Lovely hop.

 

[bum]

Had a look at Batz's Alt recipe and I think I can see why it has been recommended but I'm still K&B/extracts right now. Doesn't look like it would be too difficult to knock up an extract version that'll give me a rough approximation. I'll chuck it on the to-brew list.

1) On a hot day your palate will seek something different than on a cold day.

Yeah, I figured that. I really am, um, exploring (for want of a better word) these beers rather than just downing them. I'm trying to keep an open mind and not let my mood sway me too much. I've even re-visited beers I didn't like in the first place just to make sure.

3) The beer that you had tasted previously will alter the perception of the beer you are tasting currently.

I'm keeping this in mind too and make sure I leave a short period between each and have something between (usually something lemon flavoured then some water to deal with that).

I limit my tastings to two or three beers in a session and then do it at the beginning of the session and try to taste from "light to strong".

I'm doing exactly that although I try to keep each session's beers closely related in style so as to be able to better compare and not have glaring differences that may influence my perception.

 

[svyturys]

I'll be 103 years old then so I don't think I'll be going with you :unsure:

Sorry about the 2/52, Bribie. Just years of writing case notes out catching up to me.

But you have you have now revealed your age. Given the advances in medicine I'm sure we'll be able to arrange a jog along the beach in 2052 with a refreshing lager to follow. I'm looking forward to it.

I lived in Turkey for a year and the couple of beers there (lagers) weren't too bad but I would walk along the beach craving a couple of pints of Brains (Cardiff) S.A. - a typical malty UK bitter. Then on my return to Cardiff, sated on the S.A. I would search out lagers like Pilsener Urquell. No satisfying me, that's why I'm a home brewer :icon_cheers:

With you there. I base myself in the north of Europe. In the Baltic states the beer is that cheap that HB is unthinkable, especially if you have a good exchange rate for the dollar. The variety is gobsmacking.

 

[bum]

My impression of the Hightail was that it was basically similar to the MGPA but with different hops. But you know, look at the title of the thread...

Upon revisiting the Hightail right now I'll say I had that completely arse-about. It is somewhat English in style but like a "lite" version - maybe like a training beer for the darker English ales? Not taking anything away from it - it is a fine beer. Hoppier than I recall.

 

[manticle]

Sounds like you need to taste as many as you can and develop your recipes, combining the best bits of each. Maybe there's no one commercial variety for you?

 

[paulwolf350]

Upon revisiting the Hightail right now I'll say I had that completely arse-about. It is somewhat English in style but like a "lite" version - maybe like a training beer for the darker English ales? Not taking anything away from it - it is a fine beer. Hoppier than I recall.

I am with you, bum, seeking out beers and trying them in sucession to try to train my taste buds, still got a way to go, but instead of buying 6 different beers, i am buying 3 of the same beer each week.

It has been a very enjoyable pastime, and I am seeking a beer that i cannot seem to find, I really enjoy the ordinary bitters and ESB but find them lacking, the american stuff is too hoppy, belgian a bit funky, german is ok but not really my thing either.

If you find something close give me a heads up, I am moving a a much slower pace than you, the beer that comes closest is the James Squire Golden ale, I can see why everyone raves about it. I have brewed the extract version, which is good. And I actualy preferred it, But who knows how long the JS has been in the bottlo here, it is XXXXville.

Paul

 

[bum]

I honestly thought that beer was going to be mentioned much sooner. I really liked it too and plan on putting down the extract version DrSmurto was kind enough to supply in a couple brews time. However I guess I'm looking for something a little less session-friendly than that beer in this thread. Will definitely let you know if I find something.

Sounds like you need to taste as many as you can and develop your recipes, combining the best bits of each. Maybe there's no one commercial variety for you?

Yeah, that's the plan but it's easy for me to recognise something I like but knowing what that might be is something else entirely. Finding a single commercial variety that I can ask for advice about makes it a lot easier to ask for advice about.

 

[paulwolf350]

I honestly thought that beer was going to be mentioned much sooner. I really liked it too and plan on putting down the extract version DrSmurto was kind enough to supply in a couple brews time. However I guess I'm looking for something a little less session-friendly than that beer in this thread. Will definitely let you know if I find something.


you will probably like the extract version better than the bottle, slightly darker, slightly more feel, slightly more bitter, mine was a bit more hoppy, but you can adjust that. Its a lovely beer, the DrSmurto one. I think it is slightly bigger too, i dont think the extract was 3.5%, it certainly didnt feel like it to drink. You can always jack it up a bit.

Paul

 

[Angry Scotsman]

Bum,
Don't forget that the "environment" has a huge influence on what beer tastes like.

1) On a hot day your palate will seek something different than on a cold day.

2) The temp. at which the beer is served, (already mentioned) will alter the flavour profile.

3) The beer that you had tasted previously will alter the perception of the beer you are tasting currently.

I limit my tastings to two or three beers in a session and then do it at the beginning of the session and try to taste from "light to strong".

My HB experience started by spending consecutive summers in Europe. I was overwhelmed by the number of lagers and consequently got depressed on return to OZ. Going back in 2/52 with a mind to taste all the other beers that people were recommending that I just didn't have the palate to understand.

Cheers

I understand point 3, but you should really be training your palate so you can have numerous beers in a style and pick the differneces and flavours etc. This is what happen's when you do tasting/judgeing where you may need to try up to 30 or more beers in the same style and be able to pick out the good and bad.

 

[loikar]

Hoping someone else might share my addiction for the Elf !

*hangs head*

*hand goes up*

 

[bum]

I had a Knappstein last night on Adamt's recommendation. The aroma was pretty bloody nice. Not sure the flavour backed it up entirely but still a good drop. It was strange to have pretty much nothing behind the hops though.