Further Exposing My Beery Ignorance

[bum]

Before brewing I really only drank beer socially so I drank what most people drink (the usual suspects :icon_vomit: ). Now I'm doing my best to try as many beers as I can to see what direction I want to take my brewing. I am very far from having tried everything but have tried enough to work out that (as a generalisation) I largely like pale ales. Yeah, kinda boring, I know but there it is. The only thing is I'm liking bits and pieces out of each beer and not finding one that strikes the balance I am after. Can you help? (Does Peter Rowsthorn post here? )

I've worked out that I like the attitude brought to brewing by the popular US micros/styles - especially the almost aggressive hopping but (and I know many will stop reading after this) as far as I can tell I don't like the US hop varieties. I like Amarillo well enough (got some in the freezer, in fact) but the big C varieties leave me pretty cold. So English style PAs must be the go then, right? Well, not really. The grain bill is usually a bit too roasty(?) for me and the hops often sit a little too far back for my taste. I hope I'm not painting too boring a picture here.

I know I can find enough info around the board to cobble together a recipe that'll be at least halfway to what I'm describing - and will do so soon but what I'm really after now is a suggestion for a commercial brew that seems to tick the above boxes so I've got something to work from. Any ideas?

[edit: fixing weird formatting prob]

 

[geoffi]

Don't know of any commercial brews that fill in the void described. On the homebrew front, how about an APA but instead of a C, a B...Saaz that is. Brewed one such recently and it was a humdinger.

 

[Renegade]

hey Bum, have you tried Wicked Elf's Pale Ale ? It's a beer that might meet your suggestions in flavour, and its one that I cant put down after discovering it a few weeks ago. Made in Port Macquarie, NSW, and only $18 for a four-pack. I would love to put together something similar, but dont really know where to start in identiofying the flavours - although I would go for 'american style' as well..

Oh heck, just sitting here trying and Im getting the aroma in my nose - and Im still at work ! Yes, I have a problem. Hoping someone else might share my addiction for the Elf !

Why dont you go for an Amarillo / Cascade (the big C?) cross in a pale ale style if you're looking for something to meet your tastebuds.

 

[bum]

Sounds like a plan, Geoffi! Not familiar with the qualities of B Saaz yet as I've never used it (I'm sure I've had it in loads of beers, though). I'll definitely look into it. Cheers!

 

[bum]

hey Bum, have you tried Wicked Elf's Pale Ale ? It's a beer that might meet your suggestions in flavour, and its one that I cant put down after discovering it a few weeks ago. Made in Port Macquarie, NSW, and only $18 for a four-pack. I would love to put together something similar, but dont really know where to start in identiofying the flavours - although I would go for 'american style' as well..

Oh heck, just sitting here trying and Im getting the aroma in my nose - and Im still at work ! Yes, I have a problem. Hoping someone else might share my addiction for the Elf !

Why dont you go for an Amarillo / Cascade (the big C?) cross in a pale ale style if you're looking for something to meet your tastebuds.

Yeah, it just so happens I tried that very beer last weekend. Along with a dozen others. I really should start taking some sort of tasting notes since I'm buying so many beers for research purposes (does that mean I can claim them on my tax?). If I remember correctly (and I might not be - I really did try a dozen new beers over the long weekend and I really do wish I'd been making some sort of notes on them and those of the few previous weekends) there was something about it that reminded me of Holgate's ESB. Was not a fan of that beer. I liked the Wicked Elf PA more but there was something similar in the aftertaste - that "roastiness" I referred to earlier. Probably explaining it very badly.

As for your brew suggestion, I'm currently drinking a batch I made that was a tin of Coopers Australian Pale Ale and some Amarillo. Loving the aroma but finding the flavour could use a kick up the arse (although I think the 250g crystal called for by the recipe made it sweeter than it needs to be so that can't help).

 

[.DJ.]

Murrays Nirvana is a cross between and English and American PA..

What about Mountain Goat Hightail??

 

[bum]

I had the Nirvana last weekend too. Definitely got the pan-Atlantic feel from it but it's not quite what I'm going for. Seemed a bit like a restrained English version rather than what I'm mumbling about incoherently.

The Hightail is probably much more like what I'm talking about. I tried that one pretty early on so don't know how it fits in with this idea so I'll have to revisit it soon.

Cheers, DJ.

 

[Adamt]

Perhaps try LC Bright Ale.. that's mainly (I think!) B Saaz. Seeing as you don't seem to like malt profiles, maybe give something like Knappstein a crack. It's a lager but hoptacular (Nelson Sauvin).

 

[eamonnfoley]

hey Bum, have you tried Wicked Elf's Pale Ale ? It's a beer that might meet your suggestions in flavour, and its one that I cant put down after discovering it a few weeks ago. Made in Port Macquarie, NSW, and only $18 for a four-pack. I would love to put together something similar, but dont really know where to start in identiofying the flavours - although I

Only $18 a four pack? That might be good value in 2020.

If something as good as LCPA is $18-19 a six pack, why would someone want to pay 50% more for Wicked Elf? Unless the bottles are 500ml. Just cant justify it myself.

 

[bum]

I also had a LCBA last weekend. It wasn't bad but it kinda disappeared between the beers I had either side of it (Redoak Organic PA and Fak Yak PA - both of which I enjoyed). I'll give it another crack with the B Saaz in mind. Will seek out the Knappstien as well.

I'm not sure I'd say that I dislike malt profiles exactly. I'm really only just getting a feel for differentiating the different flavours in a beer but I would say I do like malt when it is noticable as a backbone rather than as the star, as in many of the more English styles I've tried. If that makes any sense at all. But even then that generalisation doesn't always hold true - it is the "darker" flavoured malts I'm not enjoying yet. I know that makes even less sense.

Thanks for the suggestions, Adamt.

 

[bum]

Only $18 a four pack? That might be good value in 2020.

If something as good as LCPA is $18-19 a six pack, why would someone want to pay 50% more for Wicked Elf? Unless the bottles are 500ml. Just cant justify it myself.

Pretty sure I paid very similar single bottle prices for the Wicked Elf as I did for LCPA.

But "value" is relative. If it is harder to come by where he is then it is reasonable to expect to pay a little more.

 

[Renegade]

Adam, I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that the little creatures bright ale was american cascade hops. While I say that, Im no expert in flavour profiles. So what have I done to rectify this... put down a n all cascade brew thats due for bottling ! That will show my tastebuds whats what!

Bum, it's a very noble mission you are undertaking ! you should perhaps buy at least two of each beer you sample, and try one at a significantly different temperature to the other. To my taste A lot of flavours change depending on how warm (or cold) they are.

I have been doing similar for a few months now, if I go to the bottlo, I get one coopers longie, not because I really like it, but it adds to my bottle collection, and one or two of 'something new' from a micro. Although that plans fallen over a bit since I discovered the Elf PA

 

[Renegade]

Only $18 a four pack? That might be good value in 2020.

If something as good as LCPA is $18-19 a six pack, why would someone want to pay 50% more for Wicked Elf? Unless the bottles are 500ml. Just cant justify it myself.

LCPA at my local pub is $22. And a schooner of VB is about four bucks, so $4.50 per bottle for something I really enjoy at the moment isnt too much of a luxury. But yea, they arent 500ml, only 330.

5.4% though

 

[eamonnfoley]

LCPA at my local pub is $22. And a schooner of VB is about four bucks, so $4.50 per bottle for something I really enjoy at the moment isnt too much of a luxury. But yea, they arent 500ml, only 330.

5.4% though

Yeah it varies I guess. I guess one of the reasons I'm into homebrewing is the irrational way good beer is sold in Australia. Its ridiculously expensive to buy one or two bottles, moderately expensive to buy a six pack, and reasonable to buy a carton (and they try to discourage excessive drinking). And then in the pub, a middie/pot is 3 quarters the price of a pint, despite being half the size! Again not helping the binge problem.

In Europe its generally a flat rate per bottle (in Germany about 80-90 euro cents for 500ml bottle). I guess im not over it after living over there.

Sorry for the rant. :angry:

 

[bum]

Bum, it's a very noble mission you are undertaking ! you should perhaps buy at least two of each beer you sample, and try one at a significantly different temperature to the other. To my taste A lot of flavours change depending on how warm (or cold) they are.

The ones I feel like I'm not quite "getting" I let warm up a bit and see if it makes more sense. I sort of am studying these beers rather than just banging them down. That's what the homebrew is for! Well, it's about all what I'm making at this stage is good for.

 

[Gavo]

hey Bum, have you tried Wicked Elf's Pale Ale ?

Wicked Elf PA, according to the label uses Cascade hops and Australian and English malts. I had one of these last night and I could definitely Identify the Cascade as the flavoring hops. The malt does linger after after the initial hop flavor. Don't know what the malt bill is but guessing some thing like Maris Otter? Just a stab in the dark really.
Something like this with all Aussie malt may be the go.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[Screwtop]

Hey Bum, I reckon a good English IPA will spin your wheels. Try maybe a Meantime IPA. James Squire IPA is a bit savage for a newb but why not try that too.

Screwy

 

[Renegade]

The ones I feel like I'm not quite "getting" I let warm up a bit and see if it makes more sense. I sort of am studying these beers rather than just banging them down. That's what the homebrew is for! Well, it's about all what I'm making at this stage is good for.

Aren't you proud of any of the past brews you have made ? I'm my own harshest critic, but there's still some that I rate very highly, and most of the ones I consider 'average' are still applauded by the couple of people whose opinioons matter (and that I know arent just blowing smoke up my @ss)

 

[bum]

Hey Bum, I reckon a good English IPA will spin your wheels. Try maybe a Meantime IPA. James Squire IPA is a bit savage for a newb but why not try that too.

I reckon you might have hit the nail on the head here. The next brew planned is going to be an IPA based on a Tom Coopers IPA kit and a heap of Fuggles. Haven't ironed out all the creases on the recipe yet but I'm not putting it down for a bit so I'm not in a rush on that front. I've had the JS IPA and enjoyed it but to be honest I was expecting (and wanted) a punch in the mouth but it didn't really deliver. Still an enjoyable beer that I continue to drink though. Meantime is already on the list to check out when I see it.

I realise that my descriptions make it look like I want to combine a watered down English with a watered down US. My fault, of course, but it is not the case. Dunno how to describe it any better though. Having said that the reason the beer might not exist could be that trial and error suggests it should not exist.

 

[bum]

Aren't you proud of any of the past brews you have made ? I'm my own harshest critic, but there's still some that I rate very highly, and most of the ones I consider 'average' are still applauded by the couple of people whose opinioons matter (and that I know arent just blowing smoke up my @ss)

I haven't made a complete dud yet (well, not beer anyway - let's not talk about my infected no-kit GB) but nor have I made something I'm completely happy with. And I'm not aiming for anything amazing. I know amazing doesn't come in kits.