First Wort Hopping

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dicko

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I seem to be confused with mixed information regarding first wort hopping.
Some info is to FWH your flavour hops other says to FWH your bittering hops to smooth out the bitterness.
Now I have promash I can easily calculate IBU so that is not a problem.
What I am thinking of doing is an APA with a FWH of chinook and late additions of cascade.
Or should I be using cascade in the FWH?
Should you only FWH a percentage of your hop if it is bittering and add the rest at the beginning of the boil or add what you would normally use at the boil beginning in the FWH?
Cheers
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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Oh dear, FWH topic has been raised again. I must confess to being a sceptic, and certainly for ales would not bother, whereas for Pillsener the effect might be noticeable.

Theory is, add the late addition hops to the kettle, start adding wort to the kettle and when the bottom of the kettle is covered with wort, start bringing the wort to a boil. The FW hops are to be left sitting in the wort, don't stir them, etc.

Theory is the FW hops sitting in the wort prior to full boil "fixes" the volatile flavor/aroma compounds so they don't boil off. As we have more hops in the wort for the full length of the boil you need to reduce the bittering hops a bit--the extra bitterness is supposedly perceived as very smooth, pleasing bitterness.

Some even mash hop : rolls eyes

Jovial Monk
 
A

Andrew Clark

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Hi BBB
Don,t be put off with the FWH, I have tried both FWH and Mash hopping in an IPA I brew on a regular basis.I only ever make this beer using the above two methods, Mash hopping tends to give the beer a finer aroma, not as in your face as the regular hop additions, and FWH will give the beer a rounded bitterness that doesn't pucker your mouth.
Having said that I have only tried these methods on an IPA, which is a very bitter beer with high hop aroma and flavour. Usually this beer needs to be aged for a few months to allow the bitterness to blend with the sweet malt profile and also to allow the aroma and flavour to blend well.

I found that using FWH and mash hopping allowed me to drink the beer after only a couple of weeks aging with pretty much the same result as being in the keg for 3 months.
Try it you might be suprised

Regards
Andrew
 

wedge

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do you have a recipe for that IPA Andrew?
 

dicko

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If I dont try these things I will never know!

Andrew,
I too would like to see your recipe of the IPA.

With regards to my original post which way do you guys suggest i go, - -
FWH the chinook, or FWH the cascade?
Cheers
 

Jazman

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cascade the aroma or finish hop is used in fwh the normal rule is 30% but i used 50% one turned out fine but then i still experiment with late additions
 

dicko

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Thanks for that Jazz,
I want to give it a go in about a weeks time.
Cheers
 

Linz

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Just as a side note for the Funny Friar.

Speaking to Leon at the ESB/Randwick....He has a recipe for a ye olde IPA in a 1 gallon batch. He put it to Promash and scaled it up to 23 litres. Hop bill required was 500grams(1/2 kilo).

Now thats got to pucker the sucker ! :chug: :wacko: :blink:
 
A

Andrew Clark

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Hi Wedge and BBB,
heres the Ipa recipe as requested, this beer was really nice. Although the hop varieties are not to style the results were great. Sorry for the delay in replying.
Regards
Andrew

India Pale Ale
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 1/11/2003
Style: India Pale Ale Brewer: Andrew Clark
Batch Size: 26.00 L Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 32.31 L Boil Time: 60 min
Equipment: Andrew's Mash Equipment Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %

Taste Rating (50 possible points): 46.0
Beautiful hop/malt profile. Smooth bitterness and hop flavour from the mash hopping. Fantastic IPA.

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 kg Pale Ale Malt (5 EBC) Grain 77.5 %
1.00 kg Munich Malt (14 EBC) Grain 15.5 %
0.45 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (4 EBC) Grain 7.0 %
30.00 gm Super Alpha [13.0%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 40.1 IBU
20.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [10.0%] (60 min) Hops 18.7 IBU
25.00 gm Hallertauer [9.0%] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 4.2 IBU
45.00 gm Fuggles [4.5%] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 3.8 IBU
0.28 items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.055 SG (1.050-1.075 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.013 SG (1.012-1.016 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Color: 11 EBC (16-28 EBC) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 66.7 IBU (40.0-65.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 5.2 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.4 % (5.0-7.8 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 5.5 %
Actual Calories per 12 oz: 172 cal


Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out Mash Tun Weight: 3.50 kg
Mash Grain Weight: 6.45 kg Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 22.2 C Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C
Sparge Water: 22.95 L Adjust Temp for Equipment: No

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 16.82 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 60 min


Mash Notes
Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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500g! that is 90g more than I used

Be luscious when mature at 12-14 months though!

JM
 

dicko

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Thanks for the recipe Andrew,
Will give it a go in due course,

Your point noted too, JM.
Cheers
 

jayse

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Have you tried FWH yet BBB.
i had these same questions sometime ago and come to the same conclusion that theres two sides.
one the techniqical experts who said 30% of the flavour hops is best.
then the practical modern brewers saying throw in all your bittering hops.
being a hop head i didn't want to tame done the late additions so iv'e been going with chucking in 25-35 ibu calculated with pro mash in the recipe.

anyway so far i haven't really noticed a major difference in my ales.
so if you try this you can at least expect as good of a result.Which makes it well worth trying.
the last few brews i have just made it standard practice to put all the bittering hops as FWH.

cheers jayse
 

GMK

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i fwh with the full amount of bitering hops - eg if the recipe says 45gms for 60 mins - then i fwh with 45gms.

Excellent results so far - gives a greater meore mellow depth of bitterness - similar to the bitterness in JS Pilsner and IPA.
 

jayse

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does it really work in your extract batches GMK?
i can't see it making much difference.
All the hard core mashers i know say you need to do a full grain brew with a 45 minute sparge to make it work.
adding it to a heap of extract before you boil it doesn't count as FWH does it?

sorry i know iam on your case all the time ken about different stuff lately.
but the way i look at it you can handle the constructive thoughts after all we all want to get to the bottom of all these practices for the good of our brewing.
iam not one to hold back.

cheers jayse
 

THE DRUNK ARAB

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I have begun experimenting with this after making an IPA that I FWH with Centennial. The resultant beer had really smooth bittering even at 64IBU (OG was 1068).I still added a bittering addition at 60 minutes and then additions at 30, 20, 15, 5 and 2 minutes plus I dry hopped it as well.
I have sinced tried it on an APA and am awaiting the results (beer still fermenting)
Anyone else happy with the results of FWH? Or do you think it doesn't make a lot of difference?

C&B
TDA
 

Darren

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I reckon that some of the smoothness and lack of bitterness comes from the hop particles that evenyually get "stranded" on the side of the boiler as the tide drops away.
Doesn't matter how often I scrape it off always seems to get back up there.

Because they arn't in the boil for the full time the bitterness is obviuosly lowered.
cheers
d
 

RobW

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I've been FWHopping for a while now & without being able to compare against an identical brew that wasn't FWHed I reckon the bittering is smoother & seems to have more complexity - especially beers with high IBUs like APAs & IPAs. It seems to take any harsh edges off them somehow.
 

Trent

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I'm with teh FWH crew
I use it in my IPA's, Imperial stouts and sometimes APA's. I find it offers a smoother bitterness, and if ya use the aroma/flavour hops, it seems to hang in there pretty well. I only FWH'ed with bittering hops once, but now just do it with whatever I am finishing with. Not that I was unhappy with the FWH bittering hops, I just didnt notice that much difference. I am also keen to give mash hopping a go, just to see if it makes a difference. But I try and FWH any hoppy beer
All the best
Trent
 

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