First Dunkelweizen

[Alex.Tas]

Hello,

I've made a hefeweizen before with (to my taste buds) good success. I used the coopers wheat beer tin, along with 700gms of wheat DME and 500 LDME i think. I used WB06 as i was a little hesitant to change to liquid yeasts.
This time, i want to give liquid yeast a shot.
Im thinking of using wyeast 3068 to make a dunkel.
Its been a while since i've had a dunkel. but from memory the last bottle of Franziskaner I had wasn't too 'roasty'. it was definitely more malty than the lighter one but didnt have too much of a roasted flavor that can be given by darker grains.

So my questions:
any suggestions for a recipe? I don't really want too much of a roasted flavour, more so the increased maltiness and colour associated with this style.
I've read that munich malts are the obvious choice, but i heard that requires mashing - which i haven't done before.
Also - brew temperature. Last time i did my lighter hefe i brewed around 20 or so degrees with the WB06. will this cause off flavours with the Wyeast3068?

Cheers,

 

[Adr_0]

Temperature of 17 or 18°C should do the trick from what I hear.

Can you get any dried munich extract? You will probably need ~2kg of extract on top if you are aiming for something in the 5-6% ABV range. You should probably do 1kg of wheat extract and either 1kg of munich or 1kg of pale.

I would be throwing in maybe 250g of carawheat and 200-250g of choc wheat to get your colour and flavour.

 

[Adr_0]

actually I'd probably push the carawheat up to 300-350g and the choc wheat back to 150-200g depending on how dark you want it.

 

[carniebrew]

Keep it simple and try this:

1 can Coopers Wheat Beer
1 can Coopers Wheat LME

150gm Carafa Special 1

20 litres in the fermenter, use 3068 at 17C.

Should give you 1051/1015 (5.1% after bottling), 19 IBU, EBC of 31.

No roast flavour whatsoever, the Carafa 1 is perfect for the style.

 

[warra48]

I'm with carniebrew.

You do not really want any roast flavour in a Dunkelweizen, it's meant to be malt driven.

If you brew an AG Dunkelweizen, you get the colour from using Dark Wheat, and a smidge of Chocolate Wheat and Carafa Special.

 

[verysupple]

150gm Carafa Special 1

The important word here is "Special". It's the dehusked version and shouldn't make it as roasty and won't add astringency. You want Carafa Special.

 

[carniebrew]

Aye. On the subject, has anyone ever seen the non-Special version of Carafa for sale? I've always wondered why Weyermann have both versions with such a similar name, but it seems Carafa 1/2/3 is actually pretty hard to find, most grain sellers are selling only Carafa Special 1/2/3.

 

[Alex.Tas]

Thanks for the info people. I like the simple brews the best. sounds relatively straight forward. How long should i steep the carafa 1 Special for?
Also, as my local HBS doesn't stock liquid yeast or the carafa special, have you got any suggestions on internet dealers that offer a good price? I would probably get the other required ingredients there too.

 

[rheffera]

It might interest people to know that i just put down a variation of the recipe above. Essentially the same just weaker on the alcohol. 4.9% in the bottle according to spreadsheet.

150g carafa special 1. I steeped this for 30 mins.
1 x Thomas coopers wheat
1kg dry wheat malt

WB-06

made up to 20L

Side note: I hate working with liquid malt. When i do full extracts i try and use all dry malt.

 

[unclebarrel]

Hi guys,
I have nothing to add to this thread other than the fact that I have tasted carniebrews dunkle.
It is a great drop, worth brewing if you like dunkles, and easy too !

Good luck with your brew Alex.Tas

 

[dago001]

Hi Alex.Tas. Im up on the NW Coast of Tassie. If I am ordering liquid yeasts, I normally use grain and grape (site sponsor) as they are in Victoria and if I order early in the week I normally get my parcel the next day. I wouldnt use WB06 for this beer by preference, but if you have nothing else available then go for it. The 3068 will make this a great beer, but be careful as it produces a pretty good krausen. Don't brew it new carpet (speaking from experience here).
You can also get some carafa from grain and grape at the same time if you order a liquid yeast.
I can mail some midnight wheat down to you if you want, which is what I use instead of carafa. It doesnt have any roast characteristics, and would only need a short steep (10 - 15 minutes) to get the colour that you are after. I can stick a little choc malt in it as well to help it along. PM me if you are interested.
Cheers
LB

 

[carniebrew]

Thanks for the info people. I like the simple brews the best. sounds relatively straight forward. How long should i steep the carafa 1 Special for?
Also, as my local HBS doesn't stock liquid yeast or the carafa special, have you got any suggestions on internet dealers that offer a good price? I would probably get the other required ingredients there too.

Craft Brewer is good for online too, their Wyeast liquid yeast varieties are 10% or so cheaper than Grain & Grape, and delivery is reasonable.
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/

Steep the carafa 1 for 30 minutes or so.

 

[Alex.Tas]

Hi people and thanks again for the input. Craftbrewer is out of stock for the 3068, so ill use the grain and grape site that lager bomb noted. There is the option to have the grain milled - Usually when i use the grain i'll just crack the grains a little in the motar and pestle. If i get them milled from grain and grape, i assume i wouldn't need to do this step? is there any disadvantage associated with having them mill it for me?

Also, my fermenter is only 25L, so may struggle for headspace with a 20L batch. I've made up a blowoff tube or whatever they are called by taping some clear tubing to the top of my empty airlock, and having the tube run down into an old extract tin half filled with sterileised water. Should i reduce my batchsize to allow enough headspace for the 3068 to do its stuff?

Cheers,

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Headspace for 3068 is usually, minimum 1/3 of your FV volume, preferably half. So if you have a 40L fermenter, 20L beer in it and allow for the headspace.

I had 5L headspace for BRY97, which is known for a bit of krausen, but not like 3068 and it still attempted to climb out of the fermenter.

So I don't reckon 5L will be enough without your blow-off tube and even with it, you're still gonna have a big mess to clean up.

 

[Alex.Tas]

18L plus 33% is 24L so that could work. I've got reatively constant temperature inside by brew room of 14 degrees, with the exothermic 'reaction' of the yeast, would this be okay to leave without any external heat? I've got a thermometer sticker on the outside of the barrel, and i've also got an immersion heater (lowest it can go is 20 degrees) so i can crank it up a bit if it gets too cold. Should i also aim to pitch the yeast at around 12 degrees? (Because of the 30 method).


Cheers,

 

[carniebrew]

Hi people and thanks again for the input. Craftbrewer is out of stock for the 3068, so ill use the grain and grape site that lager bomb noted. There is the option to have the grain milled - Usually when i use the grain i'll just crack the grains a little in the motar and pestle. If i get them milled from grain and grape, i assume i wouldn't need to do this step? is there any disadvantage associated with having them mill it for me?

Also, my fermenter is only 25L, so may struggle for headspace with a 20L batch. I've made up a blowoff tube or whatever they are called by taping some clear tubing to the top of my empty airlock, and having the tube run down into an old extract tin half filled with sterileised water. Should i reduce my batchsize to allow enough headspace for the 3068 to do its stuff?

Cheers,

If you're going to use the grain within a couple of months, and can keep it cool and dry, get it milled by them, it's easier and they mill it really well. Tell 'em in the comments want kind of milling you want, i.e. I say "milled for BIAB", where they can crush it pretty much as fine as they want.

I have used 3068 a few times now, and am yet to experience the massive krausen others have. I usually do 18 litres in a 30l fermenter. I don't know if maybe it's the 17C ferment temp I use?

 

[Alex.Tas]

hmm maybe i should invest in a 30l fermenter.... I'll just be using a kitchen sieve to strain the grain, so perhaps a fine mill wouldn't be the best option for me. How long do you usually leave it in the barrel for Carnie? the reccomended temp for 3068 is 18-24, so i would assume that being below this extends the fermentation process somewhat?
Ive got an average temp of 14 degrees in my brew room, would the yeast generate enough heat to get it to 17 do you think? or should i use some sort of external heating?

 

[carniebrew]

I've found with my 17C fermentations using 3068 that it's all over and done with within 5 days, so no, it doesn't seem to slow it down. But I usually leave it 2 weeks in the primary before bulk priming to 2.8 vols and bottling.

An ambient temp of 14 wouldn't be far off, but I use a brew-fridge with an STC-1000 so I can't really help there. My guess is you wouldn't need heating, could maybe just wrap your fermenter in a woolly jumper or jacket, blankets or some such.

 

[Alex.Tas]

Righto, put this one down on friday. There is a bit of foam, but nothing extreme. I would say three inches. Not quite what i expected. the WB06 i used before had more foam than the 3068.
I've wrapped it in a woolen jumper, and i think its sitting at close to 20, so i might ditch the jumper.

 

[carniebrew]

Yep, get it down to 17, and fast. 20C will not give you the same flavour profile, trust me!