Filtered Beer V's Non Filtered In Comps

[Kai]

Hi Kai Did you enter ? If so did you nominate a BJCP Style guideline ? 90% of enteries didnt. I agree Its is all about the beer in front of you but you need to know what in the Glass to judge objectively. Doesn't matter how you brewed the beer and we didn't want to know that anyway. I think the judges were being kind to bottle conditioned entries by not penalising for cloudy beers but it does need to be resolved for next year so we all, both judges and brewers know were they stand
GB

Unfortunately I didn't enter nor have anything to do with the judging side. Definitely don't agree with being nicer to unfiltered beers though, if that's what was happening.

Darren, colour me a fool then as i always specify the style when I enter a beer.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

GB,
Usually a judge has the discretion to move a beer to a more appropriate class (if possible).

Any HBer who actually nominates the exact style on their entry form is a fool.

So long as a Brown ale is in Brown ale class or a European lager is in the European Lager class, let the judges decide.

Darren

Just a quick update the regulations for the Perth Royal Beer show state,Exhibitors will be limited to one entry in any one sub class of a section.It also mentions that the entry label must show the number of the class and Subclass.
Thems he rules and the conditions.If you dont like that then dont enter these type of comps.
GB

 

[Darren]

Darren, colour me a fool then as i always specify the style when I enter a beer.

Kai,

Yeah i used to until I got comments similar to above. You can give to much information which will be subjected to subtle nuances (and experience) of the judge.

I am always happy to judge a beer against all styles in a class and score appropriately against the best fit style.

cheers

Darren

 

[Darren]

Most of the entries failed to nominate a BJCP guideline ! so this made judging even harder.We were left to make assumptions on exactly which style these beers were.Example: Given a broad entry stated as a Amber ale. So which style of Amber as was it ? Alt , American Etc. So to be fair we picked a style by consensus after tasting and judged to that.I think the Clarity issue needs to be defined before next year.If I filter and get haze in my entry I lose points yet if I send a bottle conditioned beer in I will not lose points as the beers were judged.
GB


Just a quick update the regulations for the Perth Royal Beer show state,Exhibitors will be limited to one entry in any one sub class of a section.It also mentions that the entry label must show the number of the class and Subclass.
Thems he rules and the conditions.If you dont like that then dont enter these type of comps.
GB

GB,

You are new at this arn't you?
In the ideal world everyone would enter these comps as they should. The fact remains that the best judged beer wins whether the entrant intended to make a stout (originally) but somehow it turned into an award winning pilsener.

As I said before, many HB judges could not tell you the difference let alone taste the difference between a northern brown and an english pale ale as there is considerable overlap between many styles. Usually it is upto the personal preference of the judge.

cheers

Darren

 

[T.D.]

TD, filtering achieves exactly the same as cold conditioning your beer for a period of time. There's no greater skill in allowing your beer to clear over time against filtering - i really don't understand your logic on this one.

My logic is that basically you can effectively "buy" extra points in a comp purely by purchasing a filter. That would understandably get up the noses of other brewers who have not filtered but produced a beer that, apart from appearance, is technically superior, yet have scored less overall.

To me filtering is a bit of a bandaid solution. It basically is a quick fix for a cloudy beer. I maintain that if beer is brewed well at every point in the process (all things being equal) the end result is clear beer. Some of my clearest beers haven't had any fining agent or filter withing 100 yards of them. Similarly, some of my cloudiest ones have been those that I've used whirfloc and CC'd etc. At the end of the day, I put it down to the brewing process itself.

But having said that if you want to filter then that's great, I certainly won't stand in your way.

I gave up entering comps long ago for the very reasons outlined in this thread. I know when I've produced a good beer, and that's all I care about these days.

:beer:

 

[Ross]

As I said before, many HB judges could not tell you the difference let alone taste the difference between a northern brown and an english pale ale
cheers

Darren

If they can't tell/taste the difference between a brown ale & a pale ale .....Then maybe they shouldn't be judging.

Cheers Ross

 

[ausdb]

I was a judge at the Perth Royal Beer Show yesterday. There was 2 panels of 6 judges . When we were getting ready to judge we were posed with a very interesting question from one of the senior judges.
How do you judge Filtered entries versus non filtered ?
The problem being if you filter your entry and it is not clear you get points deducted but if you enter a non filtered beer and it comes out cloudy you do not have points deducted. Obviously some beers are allowed to be cloudy, Heffe's etc.
We though this was not fair to the brewers that had done the extra work to filter.Now we did have a lot of cloudy beers come through and the entries did not lose points.
So the question , or really what I want is your point of view on this so we can put some suggestions forward for next years show. All in all the show had some very fine examples of beers from the home brewer section and really showed the quality of brewing happening out there.
GB

As chief steward from the WA state comp last year here is my $0.02 worth. I don't think you should be stating whether filtered or unfiltered but you should be stating whether bottle conditioned or not. That way the stewards have a fighting chance of serving your entry up to the judges in the best possible condition and also in the marshalling and prejudging stages making sure the beers dont get roughly handled. Also for bottle conditioned beers supplying in more than one bottle is better to meet the entry requirements as if your beer goes on to a medal round or is rejudged by different judges, then at least the stewards can try and serve from a fresh bottle that hasn't been all stirred up from pouring the previous rounds tastings.

Also I'm with the others on the style and subclass thing, you brewed the beer your knew what you tried to brew so don't leave it up to the judge to decide where it fits best :icon_cheers:

 

[Darren]

As chief steward from the WA state comp last year here is my $0.02 worth. I don't think you should be stating whether filtered or unfiltered but you should be stating whether bottle conditioned or not. That way the stewards have a fighting chance of serving your entry up to the judges in the best possible fashion and also in the marshalling and getting ready stages making sure the beers dont get shaken up too much. Also for bottle conditioned beers supplying in more than one bottle is better to meet the entry requirements as if your beer goes on to a medal round or is rejudged by different judges, then at least the stewards can try and serve from a fresh bottle that has been all stirred up from pouring the previous rounds tastings.

Also I'm with the others on the style and subclass thing, you brewed the beer your knew what you tried to brew so don't leave it up to the judge to decide where it fits best :icon_cheers:

Ausdb,

Nah, stewards should assume it is bottle conditioned (afterall 90% HB in comp will be 8))

I would say that the Mash paddle is the only competition in Australia that class and subclass are important.

cheers

Darren

 

[Darren]

If they can't tell/taste the difference between a brown ale & a pale ale .....Then maybe they shouldn't be judging.

Cheers Ross

Ross,

I agree (for a change). If you needed to ask the original question in this thread maybe you should not have been judging either

cheers

Darren

 

[Kai]

Ausdb,

Nah, stewards should assume it is bottle conditioned (afterall 90% HB in comp will be 8))

I would say that the Mash paddle is the only competition in Australia that class and subclass are important.

cheers

Darren

I thought the mash paddle was only one class/subclass/style/whatever? though i guess that would make choosing the right one important

 

[randyrob]

Well Done Neville for stepping up to the plate and judging a local comp!

i sure hope u had a good day :icon_cheers:

Catch u tomorrow for a beer and a chat

Rob.

 

[Whistlingjack]

Sub class

WTF??

WJ

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

GB,

You are new at this arn't you?
In the ideal world everyone would enter these comps as they should. The fact remains that the best judged beer wins whether the entrant intended to make a stout (originally) but somehow it turned into an award winning pilsener.

As I said before, many HB judges could not tell you the difference let alone taste the difference between a northern brown and an english pale ale as there is considerable overlap between many styles. Usually it is upto the personal preference of the judge.

cheers

Darren

Darren you are talking about people who have been chief judges in the Australian international beer awards and are invited to judge in big international beer comps most others are pro brewers. Pull your head in ! You sound like the one who doesnt know whats going on.Just because they give up their time and knowledge to judge HB doesnt mean they are cranks like you.Back under your rock.No more to say to you.
Harsh for me but ...........
GB

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Well Done Neville for stepping up to the plate and judging a local comp!

i sure hope u had a good day :icon_cheers:

Catch u tomorrow for a beer and a chat

Rob.

A Good day and some fine beers.See you on Friday.
GB

 

[hoohaaman]

Darren,do you have a book out?I'd love to purchase it.

I even have a working title for it...................

"A Glass Half Filled"

Even gave relevance to SA/NZ accent in the title,cool eh B)

 

[PartyPooper]

Although I like to filter my beer for clarity, beer to me, is primarily about taste, therefore IMHO, the vast majority of points should reflect such. In homebrewing, clarity is a nicety, not a necessit (for me anyway).

 

[warrenlw63]

I'll check up on this one in another 10 pages.

LOL! Only 7 pages to go.

FWIW It seems that comps have come a long way (in some ways) to when I stopped judging them in 2002.

Back then you could only get 3 definitions that were deemed "faults"

(1) Needs more malt
(2) Needs more hops
(3) (usually reserved for Belgians) needs more complexity

Batz and TD made valid points. Make it for yourself and those who enjoy it... Comps are merely for people who crave reassurance on their hobby (note; this is not applicable to all). Just my opinion and good luck to the others who enjoy it.

If a definition is decreed that filtered or non filtered beers have to be listed then I'm glad I don't bother anymore. I'm only guessing that BJCP certification only enhances the boundaries of "know-it-allism" (note; once again this is not applicable to all).

Warren -

 

[Darren]

Darren you are talking about people who have been chief judges in the Australian international beer awards and are invited to judge in big international beer comps most others are pro brewers. GB

Hey GB,

No I am talking about you as you asked the question.

cheers

Darren