Filter Setup 101

[Trough Lolly]

Merry Xmas all!

Good old Santa brought me a new filter kit (with ball valve option) this morning. Now, whilst I'm happy to discuss all manner of topics on brewing, I have a confession to make...I know feck all about fittings etc!
So, to me I have two challenges - I have no idea how to put hose into John Guest fittings, nor do I have any experience in setting up the JG fittings to the reducers. I've thrown together the parts by hand and taken a photo? I'm assuming that I'll run the cloudy beer out of the keg from the supplied beer out fitting with JG thingy attached, into half of the supplied LLDPE hose which is in turn connected to a JG fitting that is screwed into the black reducer on the "IN" side of the cannister. I've fitted the ball valve to the "OUT" side reducer from the cannister and then simply run some hose from that into the keg (or clamp it to nut and tail and onto a beer out threaded disconnect on the receiving keg if I want to get techo).



Have I got the right idea? The reducers seem to screw in easily enough and I'll run some of the tape around them before I install for real. The JG fittings get tight as you screw them into the reducer - I'm reluctant to use gorilla grip in case I'm wrong and stripping threads - do they have to be fully screwed into the reducer so the hex part is hard against the black reducer, or just tight???

How do you fit the tubing into the JG fitting??? It looks like I need to cut the end square, push it in until it's fully in and that's that - is there something in there that clamps the hose in place? The darker coloured collar seems to be some sort of fitting that I presume you have to pull against in order to remove the hose for cleaning??? Is that right?

If I've got the ball valve wrong, it looks like I'll need another JG fitting for the ball valve but seeings as how all the parts are used up, I can't see another way of configuring this without getting extra parts.

Sorry...these are stupid dumbass questions, but I don't want to wreck it before I use it.

Cheers,
TL the fittings numpty!

 

[Guest Lurker]

No idea about filters, but for the JG fittings:

1) The threads are tapered, if you have plenty of thread tape on them you wont get the hex bit up flush, just pull them tight.
2) Yes, cut tube square and push in. Don't just push it in a bit, it maybe goes in about 8 mm? That will lock it tight. To get it out, the grey bit you pushed it into needs to be pushed back hard against the screw in fitting, with a shifter or similar, sitting around the tube, then the tube comes out. After doing this a couple of times, there will be scratches on the outside of the tube, so cut the end off and start again to avoid leaks.

 

[Pumpy]

like this

 

[Trough Lolly]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions GL - sounds pretty easy to setup. I did a bit of a search around and apparently these newfangled fittings have steel claws that grip the hose when you fully engage it in the fitting - which would presumably mean you'd have to cut the hose nice and square to make a good fitting...

Pumpy - your gravity filter system is a beauty - I'll have a go at that once I've got all the bits up and running. Unlike your setup, I'm putting the ball valve downstream of the cannister to let me purge the air out of the cannister without having possibly turbulent beer flow into the receiving keg - as with the March pump, the ball valve on out outflow should, in theory, give me better flow control too although with the size of JG tubing provided I doubt I'm going to get a thunderingly strong flow anyway!!
Did you use reducers on either side of your cannister or are they special JG fittings with a male adapter built in? I like the fermenter bulkhead fitting - I presume Ross et al sell them???

Cheers,
TL

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

For my very first use of such a filtering thingy, I used fermenter taps fore and aft of the filter and a bit of silicon tube to hold the JG fittings in place. My filter feeds one of those little bottler thingies so I just need the JG debacle on the In-side.

John Guest sell a proper hose cutter so you can get a perfectly straight cut, but I would venture that the majority of BEVA hose used in home environments gets cut with scissors and diagonal cutters without any recorded deaths.

 

[ozpowell]

Hi Guys,

I too am about to embark on my first filtering experience and have recently picked up a filter identical to TL's, so this info is most useful - thanks!

Another closely related question - do you purge your receiving keg prior to filtering to it? If so, could someone please enlighten me as to the procedure (I'm a kegging newbie also...)

Also for TL's info, here's a pic from Ross' website showing a filtering setup using a peristaltic pump. Pic link

Hope y'all had a great Chrissie!

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[captaincleanoff]

like this

I set up my filter using Pumpy's method yesterday. Exactly the same as in that pic. Worked perfectly! I would recommend doing it like this.

 

[captaincleanoff]

Hi Guys,

I too am about to embark on my first filtering experience and have recently picked up a filter identical to TL's, so this info is most useful - thanks!

Another closely related question - do you purge your receiving keg prior to filtering to it? If so, could someone please enlighten me as to the procedure (I'm a kegging newbie also...)

Also for TL's info, here's a pic from Ross' website showing a filtering setup using a peristaltic pump. Pic link

Hope y'all had a great Chrissie!

Cheers,
Michael.

You would have to keep the release valve open on the receiving keg to allow for beer flow. So therefore I dont think purging is necessary, as you are going to have to open the valve.

On my first filter atempt, I forgot to open the valve on the receiving keg. I just couldnt work out why the beer was not flowing. The pressure built up so much that i had leaks everywhere. Was a big disaster! Didnt dawn on me until later that I was trying to pump beer into a vacuum.

 

[Finite]

Pumpy. Nice simple setup, thats what im thinking of going with.

So thats just straight from the primary/secondary and into the keg for force carb?

 

[HKS]

For my very first use of such a filtering thingy, I used fermenter taps fore and aft of the filter and a bit of silicon tube to hold the JG fittings in place. My filter feeds one of those little bottler thingies so I just need the JG debacle on the In-side.

I thought what you did with the fermenter taps for the in/out of the filter is a brilliant idea! My racking tube is 10mm ID. MHB suggested using a cutoff piece of a little bottler jammed into the end of the racking tube and then the cutoff piece of the little bottler tube inserts into the fermenter tap. If necessary you can use hose clamps to clamp them to the outside of the fermenter taps.

I also want to do it by gravity, so Ross's kit doesn't suit me because I don't want to reduce the in/out of the filter from 3/4" to 1/4". I want to keep it at 3/4" or atleast 1/2". I may even use 1/2" tube instead. But I'm tempted to have a go using the fermenter taps and my 10mm ID tube, just need to get a filter 1st :lol:

 

[Pumpy]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions GL - sounds pretty easy to setup. I did a bit of a search around and apparently these newfangled fittings have steel claws that grip the hose when you fully engage it in the fitting - which would presumably mean you'd have to cut the hose nice and square to make a good fitting...

Pumpy - your gravity filter system is a beauty - I'll have a go at that once I've got all the bits up and running. Unlike your setup, I'm putting the ball valve downstream of the cannister to let me purge the air out of the cannister without having possibly turbulent beer flow into the receiving keg - as with the March pump, the ball valve on out outflow should, in theory, give me better flow control too although with the size of JG tubing provided I doubt I'm going to get a thunderingly strong flow anyway!!
Did you use reducers on either side of your cannister or are they special JG fittings with a male adapter built in? I like the fermenter bulkhead fitting - I presume Ross et al sell them???

Cheers,

TL

That sounds a good idea TL I had planned to have all 5/16" beer line but I have a combination of that and 3/8" either way it works fine yes the reducers bring the 3/8" taps to 5/16" thats all .

dont worry about the flow it will all be done in less than 20 mins and no bothering watching it , go watch the TV ,the system looks after itself .

I filter two kegs at a time and it handles 40 liters fine .

jUST GET A 3/4"BSP MALE TO 1/4"FEMALE BSP fittings for your fermenters you may want a couple use some teflon tape and you have all the parts you require

Pumpy

 

[Pumpy]

I set up my filter using Pumpy's method yesterday. Exactly the same as in that pic. Worked perfectly! I would recommend doing it like this.

CCO I am glad it works for you too , Filtering was a pain for me now there are no dramas .

Pumpy

 

[Pumpy]

Pumpy. Nice simple setup, thats what im thinking of going with.

So thats just straight from the primary/secondary and into the keg for force carb?

Blake ,
Thats correct , it avoids all that handling and you can get the beer from fermentation into the keg in a shorter time , after fermentation ,just cool your fermenter to 2C for a day or two just to get some flocculation and as i have said before when filtering dont do it with warm beer better cold i may be misguided but I think it may reduce the potential for any risk of oxidisation .

Pumpy

 

[HKS]

jUST GET A 3/4"BSP MALE TO 1/4"FEMALE BSP fittings for your fermenters you may want a couple use some teflon tape and you have all the parts you require

Pumpy

That is the part I'm not happy about with gravity filtering. I don't want to reduce the 3/4" to 1/4" it totally defeats the purpose of gravity filtering and flow/pressure as far as I'm concerned. I know it works your way with smaller tubing and its just a matter of extra time. But.. my batch sizes are now 45L.

Before it was dubbed the "Pumpy method", my plans were to always gravity filter. I just don't like restricting the flow if you don't have to. Its 3/4" out from the fermenter, 3/4" into and out of the filter. Why should we restrict that?

I am still tempted to do it the mega expensive way using 3/4" snaplock adapters. But it would sure be a very expensive filter setup. However I never like to take the cheap route. I have always liked to do it right the 1st time no matter the cost.

 

[Pumpy]

That is the part I'm not happy about with gravity filtering. I don't want to reduce the 3/4" to 1/4" it totally defeats the purpose of gravity filtering and flow/pressure as far as I'm concerned. I know it works your way with smaller tubing and its just a matter of extra time. But.. my batch sizes are now 45L.

Before it was dubbed the "Pumpy method", my plans were to always gravity filter. I just don't like restricting the flow if you don't have to. Its 3/4" out from the fermenter, 3/4" into and out of the filter. Why should we restrict that?

I am still tempted to do it the mega expensive way using 3/4" snaplock adapters. But it would sure be a very expensive filter setup. However I never like to take the cheap route. I have always liked to do it right the 1st time no matter the cost.

HKS ,

Pistol patch and Doogichap were the pioneers of the method and helped me enourmously , I just notice purely by Serendipity that it worked by gravity alone and have tried to push the idea purely because I thought it would save people time and money .

The John Guest fittings are easy to uses and clean being push fit and readily available which were the 5/16" or 8mm OD beer line tubing .

I have a set of both 5/16"OD tubing and 3/8 " tubing and there does not appear to be a noticeable difference in the time taken to filter.

In fact the flow may not be governed by the size of the tubing as the type of filter ( I may be wrong here )

Trust me there is no need to worry about the 15-20 mins to filter 20 litres it took me longer when I was trying to push it through with CO2

When the air has been bled from the system and its flowing you can leave it and do something ellse .


Pumpy

 

[HKS]

In fact the flow may not be governed by the size of the tubing as the type of filter ( I may be wrong here )
Pumpy

You also maybe right. Maybe the filter is the biggest restriction (as Ross pm'ed me saying the same thing) and going to bigger line won't make any difference. Hmm I can feel an experiment might be needed. But how to get a consistent result with different brews and how cloudy they are, that is the problem?

But I still can't seem to get past restricting the gravity by using smaller fittings when its designed or has the capability of using 3/4" throughout.

 

[Pumpy]

But I still can't seem to get past restricting the gravity by using smaller fittings when its designed or has the capability of using 3/4" throughout.

HKS , try it with 1/2" tubing and see if it is quicker , you may get more turbulence with larger diameter hose .

I can only say I am happy with the speed and the results I get with just the normal beer line .

Pumpy

 

[Ross]

But I still can't seem to get past restricting the gravity by using smaller fittings when its designed or has the capability of using 3/4" throughout.

HKS,

The filter cartridge can't handle the flow rate that a 5mm ID line is capable of supplying, so I can't see any point in increasing it to improve flow rate.
If you use a 3/4" line on the output, the line will not fill with beer as there will not be enough flow & you increase the risk of oxidisation dramatically.

cheers Ross

 

[HKS]

You are probably right, its just like me to try and over complicate the system instead of Keep It Simple Stupid!

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Excellent discussion folks :icon_cheers:
This info and a chat with Ross this morning has it all sorted. And I'll just have to brew a steam beer to test out the filter kit, won't I??!
I too had thought of fermenter taps in and out of the cannister, until Ross confirmed my suspicions re turbulence in the outflow line - logically the flow rate will fall substantially as the beer passes through the filter, otherwise it would be working efficiently, would it?

Cheers,
TL