Fermzilla

[Crusty]

Not everyone is out to make an award winning beer every time.

I imagine a few people pressure ferment to get some co2 dissolved in the ferment, and to suppress some esters that happen due to a lack of temperature control (e.g. when you are fermenting being a door at ambient). I've done a 5 day ferment at 25-30C and 25PSI then kegged in the morning and drank it in the evening. It was drinkable for me. Sorry if this breaks your rules

No need to be sorry, brew how you like & do what makes you happy.
A pressure ferment shouldn't really be a short cut for lack of temp control nor should drinking green beer. There's a time & process for making quality beer & there's no way in hell a beer has had ample time to condition, clear or stabilize from the fermenter in the morning then drunk in the evening.
Of course you can argue oh, it tastes fine, well maybe to you it is but don't for one minute try to convince me that yeast placed under that pressure & that temperature is going to give you a superior result against proper temp control. Pressure fermenting is so, so harmful to yeast health & if you don't pitch an ample healthy quantity into that stressful situation, well the end product will speak for itself.
As for award winning beers, I've made several, not by sticking to the rules, but simply following techniques that get those awards.

 

[Crusty]

You spend your fermentation time letting out CO2 (and other volatiles), and then immediately try to pump CO2 straight back in. avoiding this waste in CO2 and potential loss in hop aroma is a good reason to try as long as it can be done without a loss in quality.

Yep, just like so many commercial breweries do.
There's techniques to recoup loss of hop aroma you know if you somehow have driven so much off.
Dry hop is good or one bittering addition only. Cool your wort down to 80degC than add your flavour & aroma hops & steep for 20mins or so.
There's very little hop character lost this way due to fermentation.

 

[pauly]

Ah that sucks to hear about the hole size, hopefully a shake will get them through. I might do a dry run first.

I actually have an allrounder, not the standard FZ, so no collection container. I read a few reviews about the valve being a pain to clean and decided to go the route i did. also by the time my beer gets in the fermenter I've usually had a few, so want an ***** proof design with less to go wrong haha.

Regarding the room temp, I'm not that worried. The hops spend months in the elements, warm temps, wind rain etc. my LHBS doesn't refrigerate them anyway, I cant see ~3-4 days in a sealed container is going to have a significant effect on them.

Cheers,
Chris

I have a FZ but dislike using it because of the valve cleaning.

I have two all-rounders and next ferment I plan to ferment in one and run the co2 into the second (empty) one which will have the spunding valve attached.

Towards the end of the ferment I will quickly open the top of the second one, which is empty but likely purged of oxygen from the co2 runoff from the ferment, and drop in the dry hop into it. Once the ferment has finished I will closed transfer from the first to the second for the dry hop.

I am also not worried about the temp for a day or so, and they will be sitting in mostly co2 I hope.

 

[Grmblz]

I was thinking of using some magnets with a hop sock to dry hop during a pressure ferment, glue some string on the magnet in the fermenter so it doesn't drop into the wort.

Connect the two magnets before closing the fermenter up, hook the string put it up the top so the krausen (hopefully) doesn't touch it and once it comes to dry hop, just take the magnet off the outside and it should just drop in the wort and the magnet just hangs there.

It might work, probably wont, admittedly i didn't put much thought into it.

Use a stir bar (magnet from stir plate) for the hop bag they're teflon coated, and wont hurt your beer, no need for bits of string.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I had an idea for dryhopping with a Fermzilla (particularly all-rounder) without exposing oxygen. If you make up a T piece with 2 female ports, 1 male port, and a ball valve, then you could attach a coke bottle of any size full of hops above the gas port, and just turn the valve to drop them in. I'm going to try to 3D print some bits up and use a ball valve from bunnings, but it might be a nice accessory.

View attachment 118350

Looks similar to mine

 

[goatchop41]

That's been done before. I'm still not a fan of leaving the hops at fermenting temps with oxygen exposure for that long.

I highly doubt that you could notice any difference due to this when doing a blinded tasting

 

[RRising]

Use a stir bar (magnet from stir plate) for the hop bag they're teflon coated, and wont hurt your beer, no need for bits of string.

That's a great idea, might buy a cheap one from ebay and test its powerful enough to hold up a hop sock.

 

[Grmblz]

That's a great idea, might buy a cheap one from ebay and test its powerful enough to hold up a hop sock.

Use an N52 neodymium magnet for the outside. Also from ebay.

 

[RRising]

Use an N52 neodymium magnet for the outside. Also from ebay.

I think i have a neodymium magnet around somewhere, if not bunnings sells them fairly cheap.

 

[mynameisrodney]

Great idea, i've heard people using magnets, but not with a stir bar. always with something i didnt want in my beer.

 

[pauly]

A pressure ferment shouldn't really be a short cut for lack of temp control nor should drinking green beer.

I think this is the confusion. I'm not using it as a short cut, I have no ability to temperature control the beer because I don't have the available space. I'm using the FZ to mitigate the effects by suppressing esters.

I also like that it carbonates my beer somewhat, as I dislike exchanging gas bottles. I really like the enclosed transfers as I often drink a keg slowly and this really helps it last.

Totally agree here. Why on earth would you need to pressurize a vessel at 2.2 bar?

So that it's carbed up after transferring to a keg. You could leave that keg to sit for a few weeks until its needed then swap it in to the kegerator, no force carbing needed.

Get some bloody temp control sorted & hit it with 0.8bar @ a couple of degrees. I can't for the life of me understand why the hell you'd try & carbonate something at 20deg+.

Probably because you can spend 5 seconds twisting the blowtie a few times rather than putting everything in a fridge with a spare gas bottle and reg. Just a guess there, I obviously can't know what their reasoning was.

 

[theSeekerr]

Why on earth would you need to pressurize a vessel at 2.2 bar?

German breweries have performed natural carbonation by spunding for decades. It's a completely reasonable thing to do. I'm not sure I'd do it in plastic, personally, but I carbonate every batch in my kegmenter by essentially* sealing the vessel for the last 3-4 points of fermentation.

* I don't actually seal the vessel, I adjust the PRV to a pressure that allows full carbonation at D-rest temperatures. But it's basically sealed.

2.2 bar is a bit on the high side - I've calculated that sufficient CO2 for full carbonation is present in the vessel with the headspace around 1.75 bar at the end of fermentation. But I don't imagine you like that number much better.

 

[goatchop41]

German breweries have performed natural carbonation by spunding for decades. It's a completely reasonable thing to do. I'm not sure I'd do it in plastic, personally

Based on what, exactly? I've seen a number of people say similar on other forums and facebook groups, but never had anything to back it up with besides 'pLaStIc Is BaD'

 

[theSeekerr]

Based on what, exactly? I've seen a number of people say similar on other forums and facebook groups, but never had anything to back it up with besides 'pLaStIc Is BaD'

I don't have any problems with plastic fermenters or even plastic pressure vessels - I have a couple that I use for split batches. But the Fermzilla design with the big mouth has definitely had issues with splits in the past. Hopefully the slightly revised shape of the tanks they're shipping now has it under control but personally I feel like it's a bit soon to be confident.

On the other hand, I have absolute confidence in the stainless kegmenters, so if someone tells me they want a vessel to use regularly near its maximum rated pressure that's the one I recommend. That simple.

 

[Grok]

So....what is bottling then, if not exactly the same process all be it on a small individual container size!

 

[onemorecell]

So....what is bottling then, if not exactly the same process all be it on a small individual container size!

well the container is the thing we're talking about here. so if you change the container it's gonna change everything...

 

[Grok]

In any case probably a topic for another thread (pressure fermenting).
I'm more interested in this at the moment, has anybody got this happening to their FZ gear?
Some smooth areas that come clean no problem, but far more rough surface that isn't cleaning friendly.

 

[goatchop41]

In any case probably a topic for another thread (pressure fermenting).
I'm more interested in this at the moment, has anybody got this happening to their FZ gear?
Some smooth areas that come clean no problem, but far more rough surface that isn't cleaning friendly.

Given the details that you shared in your earlier post, I would be thinking that it is a combination of the cleaning chemical that you are using, and more importantly the exposure time.
I don't mean this in a rude way, but have you actually read the manual for the product that you are using? It very clearly what products they recommend, and maximum exposure times

 

[Crusty]

German breweries have performed natural carbonation by spunding for decades. It's a completely reasonable thing to do. I'm not sure I'd do it in plastic, personally, but I carbonate every batch in my kegmenter by essentially* sealing the vessel for the last 3-4 points of fermentation.

* I don't actually seal the vessel, I adjust the PRV to a pressure that allows full carbonation at D-rest temperatures. But it's basically sealed.

2.2 bar is a bit on the high side - I've calculated that sufficient CO2 for full carbonation is present in the vessel with the headspace around 1.75 bar at the end of fermentation. But I don't imagine you like that number much better.

The Unitank has a pressure relief valve of 15psi but the tank itself can withstand 30psi, so at higher temperatures, ie: ambient, the pressure required for carbonation exceeds the working pressure of the relief valve. These units are designed to run a glycol system through a coil in the tank so what I'll be doing is no pressure during ferment but a few points from terminal, close the tank & set my spunding valve for around 0.8bar, 12psi. When I cold crash the beer will absorb that head space pressure & I should end up with approx 2.5vol/CO2, temp dependent.

 

[theSeekerr]

When I cold crash the beer will absorb that head space pressure & I should end up with approx 2.5vol/CO2, temp dependent.

Look for my post a few pages back, I ran the numbers on a similar statement and it doesn't quite work that way.