Fermzilla

[awfulknauful]

EDIT: Just adding that I like my FZ but I wouldn't buy a second one I don't think.

Agree, I wouldn't buy again, KL would have been better waiting to get everything right, although maybe this is as good as it gets out of China. I will be ordering the conversion kit for making the Fermentasaurus into the Fermenter King and ordering a second Fermenter King.

 

[Schikitar]

I have 2 55L FZ and 1 27L FZ. No problems disassembling and reassembling. No problems with leaks. A small amount of silicone lube on the rubber parts makes things much easier.

..and I don't think that is an uncommon story BUT there's no denying that there are issues, common issues, KL could probably alleviate most of them with better instructional videos on YouTube as a start IMHO..

 

[Kristian Taylor]

I have 2 55L FZ and 1 27L FZ. No problems disassembling and reassembling. No problems with leaks. A small amount of silicone lube on the rubber parts makes things much easier. I still have a fermentasauris but prefer the FZ.

I have a 55L and love it. No issue sealing and works like a charm. Would totally buy it again.

 

[Norbert]

Ouch.. not overly negative but this is not the sort of messaging a product like this needs out there..



..there's a few supporters in the comments but still, the FZ has a sealing problem that should not require TLC and special treatment.

EDIT: Just adding that I like my FZ but I wouldn't buy a second one I don't think.

Hi Schikitar,
When I disassembled mine, I found it a bit difficult too. Have a look at this link. It just takes a little to get used to it, that's all, nothing wrong with the Fermzilla. Maybe Kegland should do a video how to do it properly.
I disassembled mine a few times now with no problems. What does help, is a second one of the special tools. You find them at hardware stores.
Hope this helps.
I got to say I am very happy with mine after fixing the problems with the seal.
Norbert

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Hi Schikitar,
When I disassembled mine, I found it a bit difficult too. Have a look at this link. It just takes a little to get used to it, that's all, nothing wrong with the Fermzilla. Maybe Kegland should do a video how to do it properly.
I disassembled mine a few times now with no problems. What does help, is a second one of the special tools. You find them at hardware stores.
Hope this helps.
I got to say I am very happy with mine after fixing the problems with the seal.
Norbert

We did make the mistake of over-tightening some of the first batch that was made and this caused some customers to find the valve difficult to get off. With that said as of about 2 months ago we started dispatching all the FermZilla uni tanks without valve attached. So this has eliminated this problem. The other thing is that this has reduced the carton size by a few CM so the shipping cost is also slightly reduced.

So all Australian stock is already packed and shipped like this but some of the international distributors might still have some of the first batch of stock that is trickling through the system. Also by forcing customers to put it together it educates customers that it's a left hand/reverse thread. When we had it pre-assembled customers some customers would not realise and then they would tighten the nut up even more when trying to undo it.

We do dedicate quite a lot of time to product development and in the instance that we find an issue we generally have a solution in the pipeline fairly quickly.

If you do get stuck on how to take it apart we made this video that you might also find useful:

 

[Schikitar]

It's not me that has the issue (my FZ has been pretty great overall) - I was merely pointing out that when you have a FB group full of people who can't get seals to work and international Youtubers (that's a thing now I suppose) talking your products down because they can't manage something like disassembly then there's problem with the messaging from a PR perspective. I wasn't aware of this particular YT vid of yours, thanks, I even searched your channel yesterday and it didn't come up (weird!), I usually point people to these when they're having problems so please continue to put effort into them.

 

[dkril]

It's not me that has the issue (my FZ has been pretty great overall) - I was merely pointing out that when you have a FB group full of people who can't get seals to work and international Youtubers (that's a thing now I suppose) talking your products down because they can't manage something like disassembly then there's problem with the messaging from a PR perspective. I wasn't aware of this particular YT vid of yours, thanks, I even searched your channel yesterday and it didn't come up (weird!), I usually point people to these when they're having problems so please continue to put effort into them.

It's an unlisted video (click through to Youtube, it's noted under the title in small print), so the only way to find it is to be given the URL.

 

[nala]

It's not me that has the issue (my FZ has been pretty great overall) - I was merely pointing out that when you have a FB group full of people who can't get seals to work and international Youtubers (that's a thing now I suppose) talking your products down because they can't manage something like disassembly then there's problem with the messaging from a PR perspective. I wasn't aware of this particular YT vid of yours, thanks, I even searched your channel yesterday and it didn't come up (weird!), I usually point people to these when they're having problems so please continue to put effort into them.

I saw this video on YouTube this week.
The guy who posted lives in Sweden...he is bit of Swedish larrakin ! I think this was completely out of order.
He could have emailed Kegland and asked a question about his concerns.
I recently contacted Kegland and found them very helpful, very quick to respond and very courteous.
I wish them great success with the Fermzilla and feel sure that customer feedback, cons and pros, will sort out any minor problems in the short term.
There is nothing on the market to beat the Fermzilla for,design, innovation and price.

 

[Spence]

Hi all, this is my first post but I have been lurking for a few weeks researching HB equipment as I am planning to get into all grain brewing. I have just come here to add my 2c. I have found that some parts of this thread (and the equipment forums in general) have been a bit fear-mongering/unhelpful. Maybe some members have axes to grind against certain companies/products? Reading the comments here made me hesitant to include the FZ in my wish list for my first brewing setup.

To satisfy my curiosity I went on the KL Home Brew FB Group and created a poll asking about the pefand after 24 hours here are the results (if the results move away from the below I may update this)
1st: "All good, no issues with sealing" 68 votes
2nd: "Had issues, but all resolved now and working well" 28 votes
3rd: "I wish my wife would let me buy one" 13 votes
4th: "Just got one haven't tried it yet" 9 votes
5th: "Unfortunately it does have problems" 8 votes
There were 7 more answers but they didn't directly address FZ performance

Out of a total of 133 votes, 104 votes directly addressed the performance of the FZ (Statistically, a sample size larger than 30 allows you to predict the typical experience of a whole population with a confidence level of over 95%) So, n=104 and n>30 (apologies for bringing math into this).
65.38% of users experienced no issues
26.92% of users had issues now resolved
7.69% of users had problems (I am assuming these are not resolved as a worst case scenario)

For anyone reading trying to make a decision you have a 92.31%(+/- 5%) chance of brewing under pressure and a 7.69%(+/- 5%) chance of the FZ not being for you.

 

[Schikitar]

It's an unlisted video (click through to Youtube, it's noted under the title in small print), so the only way to find it is to be given the URL.

That explains it, should be pinned to the top of the channel!

The guy who posted lives in Sweden...he is bit of Swedish larrakin ! I think this was completely out of order.

I mostly agree with this, doesn't change the fact that has has an audience and has an influence (albeit nothing too huge)..

 

[KegLand-com-au]

We have heard of a few leaks but given the number of FermZilla units that have been sold I would say the leaks would be in the vicinity of less than 1%. I would say significantly less leaks in FermZilla units than the white HDPE fermenters.

I should also mention that the stock standard FermZilla fermenters come with 2.1mm o-rings and we originally went with this o-ring because it was slightly easier to pull the lid off. With that said the small 2.1mm cross section thickness is easy to damage and doesn't give very high o-ring compression. So we are going to also stock a 2.4/2.5mm o-ring very soon and this makes the lid a tighter fit and more then doubles the o-ring compression. We have found that these give a more reliable seal but just requires a bit more force to remove the lid. These should be on our website in a couple weeks. So if you have purchased a FermZilla and want to try this out I am sure we can throw a free couple of these onto your next order if you like.

At the end of the day if you can identify a problem, we are confident that we can almost always find a solution.

 

[Meddo]

Hey @KegLand-com-au , what's the heat and chemical resistance of the red plastic carb caps, and also the non-tank components of the Fermzilla (lid, valve, o-rings, etc.)? Asking in relation to utilising 65 degree cleaning fluids intended for other equipment during a cleaning session.

 

[Schikitar]

We have heard of a few leaks but given the number of FermZilla units that have been sold I would say the leaks would be in the vicinity of less than 1%.

I'm not saying the FZ's are leaky due to the manufacturing process (with the exception you mention), I'm saying most people don't know how to, for example, tighten the seals properly - it's user error that needs user education (and perhaps a little more on the design side to account for that)..

At the end of the day if you can identify a problem, we are confident that we can almost always find a solution.

I don't doubt that but why not pro-actively start putting those solutions out there as they arise. The KL videos on YT have been great but I think you guys could do more and in doing so you have control over the messaging to your consumers and another way to interact with them..

Just my $0.02

 

[DaveGillespie]

We have heard of a few leaks but given the number of FermZilla units that have been sold I would say the leaks would be in the vicinity of less than 1%. I would say significantly less leaks in FermZilla units than the white HDPE fermenters.

I should also mention that the stock standard FermZilla fermenters come with 2.1mm o-rings and we originally went with this o-ring because it was slightly easier to pull the lid off. With that said the small 2.1mm cross section thickness is easy to damage and doesn't give very high o-ring compression. So we are going to also stock a 2.4/2.5mm o-ring very soon and this makes the lid a tighter fit and more then doubles the o-ring compression. We have found that these give a more reliable seal but just requires a bit more force to remove the lid. These should be on our website in a couple weeks. So if you have purchased a FermZilla and want to try this out I am sure we can throw a free couple of these onto your next order if you like.

At the end of the day if you can identify a problem, we are confident that we can almost always find a solution.

I asked this on your Facebook group but received no reply. What about customers outside Australia?

Are these a standard part we can source independently?

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Hey @KegLand-com-au , what's the heat and chemical resistance of the red plastic carb caps, and also the non-tank components of the Fermzilla (lid, valve, o-rings, etc.)? Asking in relation to utilising 65 degree cleaning fluids intended for other equipment during a cleaning session.

Hey @KegLand-com-au , what's the heat and chemical resistance of the red plastic carb caps, and also the non-tank components of the Fermzilla (lid, valve, o-rings, etc.)? Asking in relation to utilising 65 degree cleaning fluids intended for other equipment during a cleaning session.

This is one of the areas we did do a lot of research as we wanted an alternative to nylon.

The Fermentasaurus was made with Glass Reinforced Nylon and this was quite strong and durable however it could suffer from mild chemical attack especially if some high percentage acid cleaners were used. For instance undiluted Stellarsan or Star San were used on the Fermentasaurus it could cause a mild chemical attack. Somethings this could happen without even realising. For instance if you mix the sanitiser to the correct dilution and then water starts to evaporate from the sanitiser the concentration of phosphoric acid would get high enough that it would eventually attack the nylon.

About 2 years ago we started doing testing on a plastic called Polyketone. This engineering plastic has food grade approvals including FDA and has equivalent strength to nylon however it's got superior chemical resistance and it's similar with it's temperature resistance. Polyketone can be used with caustic soda, phosphoric acid, lactic acid, and many other chemical cleaners found around the house or in the brewery.

65C Water is perfectly fine to use with the red plastic carb caps, the FermZilla Lids, dump valves etc. (just not the actual tank itself)

I actually prefer the red plastic carbonation caps now to the stainless ones and they are a fraction of the price.

With respect to the seals in the carb caps and FermZilla units these can all be washed at 65C quite happily as they are made from almost all EPDM. I think we have a nitrile seal in the carb cap but this will also change to EPDM soon too.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

I asked this on your Facebook group but received no reply. What about customers outside Australia?

Are these a standard part we can source independently?

Outside of Australia we have a range of different distributors that we deal with and the list of distributors can be found on our website here:

https://www.kegland.com.au/distributor/

If you need spare parts, support etc I would start by contacting one of our distributors first. If it's a really new product we generally release in Australia first and then within 2-3 months the products start to trickle down to the other distributors. So if it's a really new product if you can wait a bit longer after it's released your local distributor will probably have it available. If not then contact us and we will do what we can to assist you.

With respect to the o-rings I believe the FermZilla o-rings that are slightly thicker cross section might also be able to be purchased from plumbing supply hardware places as I think they are often used in 100mm food grade PVC pipe end caps. I am yet to try this myself but you might find that the 100mm food grade PVC pipe end caps have replacement o-rings that are about 2.5mm cross section so this should technically be fine but I just have not had the chance to try this myself.

 

[DaveGillespie]

Something like this?

http://www.oringsandmore.com/silicone-o-rings-size-242-price-for-5-pcs/

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Something like this?

http://www.oringsandmore.com/silicone-o-rings-size-242-price-for-5-pcs/

1/8 cross section is just slightly too thick. I think this might not be able to be inserted. I think if you can go down to maximum 2.6mm cross section this would be better. We found that 2.5mm was a tight fit and really probably don't really want to exceed this thickness.

1/8 inch is over 3mm cross section so I think this would not be quite suitable.

 

[DaveGillespie]

http://www.oringsandmore.com/silicone-o-rings-size-155-price-for-2-pcs/

Should be 2.6mm unless I'm wrong?

 

[AMc1878]

Bought my fermzilla a couple of months ago. Done plenty of brews in those couple of months without any issue apart from the standard can't get the top off and the collection bottle is a pain.
But recently, I thought I'd give fermenting under pressure a go seeing as that's what it is designed for. All good until I went to dry hop using the collection vessel. Beer gushed out everywhere. Closed the valve. Tried again. Same result. By this point I've lost a fair bit of beer. The only way I could stop the leak was to overtighten which I didn't want to do.
I contacted kegland and they told me it was my fault for overtightening! They suggested I change the O ring and test it. I have and it still leaks. I asked if they could replace the valve unit and vessel because that is where leak / fault is or if I could take it to one of their suppliers but they refused even though their t&c's state that they will provide replacement parts to fix a fault. I have to package and post the whole unit back to them which means I'm now going to be without a fermenter for a few weeks.
Most of my brew setup is kegland and I've always been happy with their stuff but this experience has been woeful.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

http://www.oringsandmore.com/silicone-o-rings-size-155-price-for-2-pcs/

Should be 2.6mm unless I'm wrong?

I don't think that is quite right. That link seems to say 3/32" which i believe would be a cross section thickness of about 2.38. It seems that this website also sell some metric o-rings too and you can see them here:

http://www.oringsandmore.com/content/OAMMetricChart.pdf

If you go with the 110mm ID x 2.5mm Cross section that would be the one I would try out.

 

[Julesf]

Just a question about dry hopping in the fermzilla. If I dry hop after primary fermentation is complete (by using the collection chamber after dumping pressure out of the top of the fermzilla) does the CO2 in solution still carry away the hop aroma, or is it not really a problem because at that stage not much CO2 will be pushed out of the fermzilla via the spunding valve as fermentation is mostly done? Hope that makes sense.

 

[Sandberg]

I just tested my Fermzilla for the first time. I used lube on all fittings and had no leaks except for the carbonation caps. Finger tight wasn't enough for me, I had to use a wrench. Maybe I'm just weak or all the lube made it hard to get it tight enough. I have now pressurised it to 10psi and will wait until tomorrow to see if it holds pressure. I was almost about to return it before testing it after reading all comments, but so far it looks like a keeper.

 

[Mya]

Just a question about dry hopping in the fermzilla. If I dry hop after primary fermentation is complete (by using the collection chamber after dumping pressure out of the top of the fermzilla) does the CO2 in solution still carry away the hop aroma, or is it not really a problem because at that stage not much CO2 will be pushed out of the fermzilla via the spunding valve as fermentation is mostly done? Hope that makes sense.

Most recommend dry hopping a couple days before primary fermentation is complete actually, so that any oxygen you add to the fermenter is used up by the yeast.

 

[Julesf]

Most recommend dry hopping a couple days before primary fermentation is complete actually, so that any oxygen you add to the fermenter is used up by the yeast.

What about if I add the hops via the collection chamber, and purge it with CO2 first? Then there should be little to no 02 anyway?

 

[DaveGillespie]

@KegLand-com-au tried a 110mmx2.5mm on the lid, seems to be performing well. Are you trialling a thicker oring on the collection jar? If so, what dimensions?

 

[Paddy]

Just a question about dry hopping in the fermzilla. If I dry hop after primary fermentation is complete (by using the collection chamber after dumping pressure out of the top of the fermzilla) does the CO2 in solution still carry away the hop aroma, or is it not really a problem because at that stage not much CO2 will be pushed out of the fermzilla via the spunding valve as fermentation is mostly done? Hope that makes sense.

I have used a couple of options for dry hopping and they are on the faceplant site too. Either through the collection jar for big hops or suspend a hop ball using magnets inside the fermzilla above the wort until you are ready to drop, just did a NEIPA jumped 5 psi and about 2 " of head once I opened the dump valve

 

[Julesf]

I have used a couple of options for dry hopping and they are on the faceplant site too. Either through the collection jar for big hops or suspend a hop ball using magnets inside the fermzilla above the wort until you are ready to drop, just did a NEIPA jumped 5 psi and about 2 " of head once I opened the dump valve

Have experienced the same thing. I think when you open the dump valve it causes a drop in pressure which makes the CO2 drop out of the solution to some degree? Something like that and I’m sure someone will correct me if not! That’s what I’m asking about , with all that CO2 bubbling happening would it carry off the hop aroma from the hos that we’re just added? And if that’s the case, would it be better to let the beer decarbonate a little before dry hopping?
Just trying to maximise the hop factor...

 

[Substance]

Noob mistake or product failure?
Did a late night 10pm transfer from the FermZilla to keg of a well hopped all in brew Mutiny Red IPA brew,
Thought it will be right until I get home the next day to do the clean out.
A me home from work to the strong scent of hops and brew downstairs,
On investigation I found this

Not sure what the pressure rating is on the tub but it can blow

The other half of the collection tub was in the opposite corner of the bathroom

Now I have done this procedure several times without a problem.
But this failure I put down to me forgetting to open the valve back up when done as I normally do, allowing the pressure to move to the whole unit, not just the tub alone
The hydraulic pressure of the hops and yeast would appear to have exceeded the limits of the vessel

So remember brewers keep the valve open if you do this also,
I was looking at getting a 2nd bottle anyway for yeast harvesting, so have ordered 2 new bottles instead

After cleaning this up I thought I would break the seal of the fresh keg of All in Brew Consequences, dumped the first dregs then poured a nice pint and relaxed a bit, came back about an hour later the another fresh smell of brew again to find the new keg had leaked out completely from the ball post “WTF” to all over the floor downstairs,
start the clean up again

Wow just wow, what a crap day
Live and learn

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Was your spunding valve not connected?
Maybe thats why they have come up with this the BunkerZilla.