Fermenting questions, and storage in bottles

[SnakeRider]

Hey guys,

I have now fermented and bottled 3 kit brews.

The first was pretty terrible. Mangrove jacks blonde + 1kg dextrose. ferment temps ranged from 25-29. waited full 4 weeks in bottle and still terrible with a tangy fruity after taste like off beer almost. OG 1060, FG 1002

The second, i have just tasted (bottled for 2 weeks now). It is a cooper sparkling ale kit with a 'cold pack' (unknown quantities of maltodextrine, malt, and dextrose). it is much better than the first kit i brewed, but still has that tangy after taste and is really disappointing compared to real sparkling ale. ferment temps were 25-30. OG 1040 FG 1006

The third, is the same as the second EXACTLY, but i believe the cold pack was different, as the OG was different, as was the FG. Ferment temps were during the Brisbane heat wave so what it got up to was unknown ferment temp 25-30+. OG 1036 FG 1005

Now for the questions:

I have acquired a working fridge, and purchased a reptile hot/cold 240v thermostat (i have used these before as I have reptiles) so will be able to regulate ferment temperatures very soon.
Will this action alone eliminate that tangy fruity after taste?
if not how do I make it taste better?

After fermentation has occurred, I was going to rack it into a cube, and keep it at the same temperature for the duration of the bottle conditioning period (3-4 weeks) then bottle and prime.
Will this improve the taste or am I wasting my time?
How long will i need to wait before drinking for priming to finish?
When I bottle it, can I move and store it in a cupboard at room temp or will that ruin it?

I like the process, I enjoy the science and maths behind it, I want to get better at this, but I also require tasty beer to make this viable LOL!
What else can I do to make these kits taste better?

Thanks for any help and advice guys!

SR

 

[unclebarrel]

Hey SnakeRider,

Temp control will help out quite a lot !
Moving over to quality yeasts, e.g.. US05 for ales.
Replace the 'cold pack'….whatever is in that !….with dry or liquid malts.
Read up on steeping specialty grains and hop additions.

As far as bottling goes, once final gravity is hit, or after a couple of weeks in the fermenter, bottle away and store bottles as close to fermenting temps as possible for a couple of days, then store away from light for a few weeks and enjoy ! Everyone has their conditioning methods, thats just mine.

Anyway.
Anyone could tell you what to do, but IMHO doing your research and brewing regularly are your best weapons.

Search out info here for sure, there are HEAPS of threads on any topic, also blokes who know their shizzle and will be willing to help if you get stuck.

Cheers and good luck with it ! :beerbang:

UB

 

[Sea_Eagle]

I'll try and sneak in before all the people with the expert advice.
Temp control will help a lot!
Focus on good sanitation.
Look into some hops, specialty grains and better yeast (us05 is a start)
The ingredients will cost a little but you should notice a marked improvement in your beer.
Good luck!

 

[SnakeRider]

Great news, thanks for the help guys!

I will try changing 1 thing at a time, so I know what changes make the differences.

I will ask the brew shop what percentages/weights of each ingredient he puts in the cold packs, and buy bulk of each, and measure myself for accuracy.

For my next brew I will try changing just the temperature, and compare it to the other 2 sparkling ale kits so I know what flavours that changes.

Then change just yeast, then move to malts.

UB - Do you mean use 100% malt and no dextrose or moltodextrine?

I am still curious if I can bottle it and then put it in the cupboard without harming it, or will that temp change while priming create the tangy flavour also?

 

[Sea_Eagle]

Using a kit can and using Dry/Liquid malt extract instead of dextrose will give your beer better flavour IMO
1kg of Dry malt (DME) is about equivalent to 1.5kg of Liquid malt (LME) and that reminds download IANH'S excel spreadsheet it's awesome!
As far as storing your beer, I've read it's best to store it for a week or two at around 20-25C to help it carb up. After that its best to store it somewhere cool and dark, a place that doesn't undergo too much of a temperature swing.
I put mine under the house.
I'll look for the link to the spreadsheet and post it up.

Edit, I'm on the ipad so I couldn't link to the spreadsheet.
it's in the brew shed, kits and extracts, at the top of the page

 

[unclebarrel]

Yo SR

The tangy flavour is a bit of a thing that has had many robust debates fought out on the keyboard !
Do a search on "kit twang" and you will see what I mean.

Yes, I meant 100% malt !!!
Check out some recipes for extract brewing and you will see what I mean.
All liquid or dry malts, maybe some dex, hop additions for bittering and flavour/aroma.

You should be just fine to store bottles in the cupboard for conditioning, just make sure your priming amounts are sound !!

UB

 

[fletcher]

you'll notice a huge difference with controlled temperature. once you have that in place, slowly but surely look to use good quality yeasts (as has been mentioned) and then look at your ingredients too. steeping specialty grains and adding hops, as well as using malt extract will go a long way to making much nicer beers

...then it's a slippery slope into brewing in a bag and all grain haha.

 

[unclebarrel]

Good Point Sea Eagle,

I also use the spreadsheet.
IanH has done a rad job on it and it makes brewing super easy !!!


UB

 

[unclebarrel]

Hahaha.
True fletcher, its very slippery slope, one that I am half way down now !!
Been doing partials, looking at gear to go AG.
Exciting times looking at gear to brew AG beers !
Just got to pull my finger out and make a decision and get some cash aside for it.

UB

 

[manticle]

Great news, thanks for the help guys!

I will try changing 1 thing at a time, so I know what changes make the differences.

Good move. Temp as suggested should be the first.

Get it to 18 and see what difference that makes.

 

[BeardedWonder]

Hi SnakeRider

I'm a brew-noob, like yourself. Maybe a half dozen brews ahead of you.
The only temp control I have is an eski with frozen water bottles that get changed twice a day. I only use this for fermentation and conditioning of the FV, as I couldn't fit the FV and thirty odd bottles in there at the same time.
My bottles sit in a black plastic tub on the floor of the "brew room", which has the blinds closed (those piss weak thin metal ones) and is subject to the ambient temps. I haven't had a sour beer yet from that system.

The only batch that I had an issue with was a cider that I brewed prior to having the eski (fermented in a tub of water with a wet towel over the FV and a fan blowing on it) that happened to get caught in a heat wave (yes, Melbourne heat waves are less intense, but it was on the second floor of a shitty cinder-block appartment, so the place was an OVEN. I no longer brew or live there...)

I have been fastidious with most other areas of my process but quite slack when it comes to bottle conditioning, I pretty much slap the bottles into a tub and ignore them for a month (admittedly, I WOULD be storing them in a temp controlled environment if I could, but I have no space for a brew fridge and the landlord may take exception to me installing a cellar in the house....).

From my limited experience and knowledge, I would say that there is more wriggle room in regards to storing your bottles than there is in storing your FV.

BW

 

[davedoran]

Hey Mate,

There's a wealth of knowledge up here and would agree with every thing said by the pros so far.
I've only done about 10 brews but starting to get some good results.
From my experience I stay away from Brew Booster, Brew Enhancer etc.
What im doing is using kit, extract, hops and premium yeasts and have started getting good results. Temp control on your fermenter is really important for taste and that's where I would start.
Keep at it and I will come good.

 

[yum beer]

I'd say get yourself some good yeast straight up, as you already have the temp controller theres no cost there.
1 kg Light Dry Malt or tin of extract instead of any other malt/sugar combo...you've got to add something might as well get it right off the bat.
Do your sparkling ale again with your new found abilities and marvel at the difference. Just remember that you will almost always have some amount of 'twang' from a kit.
temp control....
better yeast......
all malt......
steeping grains......
hop additions..............
BIAB.................
AG....................
yes it is indeed a slippery slope.


good luck SR.

 

[Bribie G]

temp control....
better yeast......
all malt......
steeping grains......
hop additions..............
BIAB or another version of AG
yes it is indeed a slippery slope.

At the risk of flames, in my kit days I found the Brew Enhancer 2 to be perfectly ok with a kit, depending on style. For example a Coopers Lager done with light dried malt extract turned out a little heavy and "chewy" ... for a good thirst quencher I would normally use the BE2 that adds a wee bit extra malt, light body and nice smooth head.

It certainly didn't impart off flavours. Of course with a dark ale or stout then it would be malt extract all the way.

 

[Blitzer]

After fermentation has occurred, I was going to rack it into a cube, and keep it at the same temperature for the duration of the bottle conditioning period (3-4 weeks) then bottle and prime.

Just a quick point after fermentation has occurred, if you rack into a cube it is then called 'Secondary Fermentation' though it is not necessarily needed and may just increase a chance for infection. Though if no infection then it could help clarify the beer etc.

I would suggest after primary fermentation put it straight into bottles for the bottle conditioning period of at least 2 weeks.

 

[Alex.Tas]

I wouldnt worry too much about the temperature your beer bottle condtions at. I dont reckon it will make a big impact on flavour. that being said, dont leave it in the garden shed on 40 degree days though, and if you can, keep the beer away from sunlight and in brown plastic/glass to prevent it getting "skunked." Agree with the all malt route, but like bribie g says, using the brew enhancers is perfectly acceptable for some brews.
If you like hoppy beers, they can also be used effectively to 'cover up' non iedal brewing practices. I'm not a great brewer, and im sure large-ish hop bills have saved me in the past...

 

[SnakeRider]

Just a quick point after fermentation has occurred, if you rack into a cube it is then called 'Secondary Fermentation' though it is not necessarily needed and may just increase a chance for infection. Though if no infection then it could help clarify the beer etc.

I would suggest after primary fermentation put it straight into bottles for the bottle conditioning period of at least 2 weeks.

Yes good point, I should have been more clear about my reasoning to for racking to secondary. The point was to keep it cool for at least 2 weeks after fermentation was completed because I can fit a 25L cube/polygon next to my fermenter in the fermenting fridge. Thought the 2 extra weeks of cool conditioning would give it a better chance?

 

[yum beer]

Bribie does makea good point about BE2 being a good option in lighter beers like lagers.
I myself have been down that path.
The all malt option IMO is better over a wide range of beers and for someone just starting out will give consistently good results.
Once SR is more fluent with the processes then BE2 may be a viable option and I certainly wasn't totally discrediting it, it has its place it kit brewing,
and actually I have used it in an AG batch when I came in under numbers a bit and it worked well.

 

[wbosher]

As others have said, temp control first. That will make MASSIVE, MASSIVE, MASSIVE difference. The difference in taste between 25-30 and 18 degrees is MASSIVE!!! I hope I've made my point.

 

[Nullnvoid]

Great advice everyone. I have got my first brew down now but it all seems consistent with what I have read

I was paranoid about cleanliness but as I work in a very sterile environment I can understand how important it is to make sure you don't grow what you shouldn't be

The hardest part is waiting for the first one I'm finding