Fermentation Of A Lager

[jackmc]

Hi Guys,

Yesterday I put down my first true lager. Its a Dark Lager (Schwarzbier) from the Vicbrew recipe book (with a few changes).

After chilling down to ambient temperature and pitching the yeast (equivalent dry yeast to Saflager), I chucked it straight in the fridge. As of now, it is down to 10 deg C (desired temp for recipe).

There is no action as yet, I'm wondering if most people let it start fermenting before moving it to the fridge? Also, I'm not 100% sure on the active temperature range for Saflager... It was meant to be a Danish Lager Activator, but it got frozen, then crushed in the fridge. I'm testing it out in a starter at the moment, but no luck so far..

Anyway, my main question is re the lager temperature. I'll probably give it until 6pm tonight (24hrs from pitching) to see any action before I start worrying. Any tips?

 

[Maple]

Tips: Patience and pitching rates. Check mrmalty website for pitching rates. the patience thing, well let me know where you find that, often I'm a bit short on it myself.

 

[jackmc]

Thanks Maple, that looks like a really handy site. I think I should have used a bit more yeast. I did add a teaspoon of yeast nutrient... I'll give it until tonight.

Maybe I need to work on my patience as well

Any comments on temperature?

 

[Supra-Jim]

Temp seems fine. Lagers are generally fermented between 10-12 degC, so you should be fine on that front.

Regarding your comments of 'no action', what is your basis for this? no bubbles in the air lock? if so i would suggest that this is not a good method to rely on.

Has there been any krausen forming (probably a little early for this), or condensation forming on the lid of the fermenter. Realistically though a hydrometer reading will be the best test to see if anything is happening.

Give it another day, remembering yeast does work slower at these temps.

:icon_cheers: SJ

 

[brendo]

Hi Guys,

Yesterday I put down my first true lager. Its a Dark Lager (Schwarzbier) from the Vicbrew recipe book (with a few changes).

After chilling down to ambient temperature and pitching the yeast (equivalent dry yeast to Saflager), I chucked it straight in the fridge. As of now, it is down to 10 deg C (desired temp for recipe).

There is no action as yet, I'm wondering if most people let it start fermenting before moving it to the fridge? Also, I'm not 100% sure on the active temperature range for Saflager... It was meant to be a Danish Lager Activator, but it got frozen, then crushed in the fridge. I'm testing it out in a starter at the moment, but no luck so far..

Anyway, my main question is re the lager temperature. I'll probably give it until 6pm tonight (24hrs from pitching) to see any action before I start worrying. Any tips?

In my expeience, lager yeasts tend to take a bit longer to kick off than ales, although i find that rehydrating the yeast prior to pitching helps to shorten this a bit. also, don't necessarily expect as vigoruous fermentation response as what you get with typical ale yeasts.

my advice, relax and give it a bit longer.

Cheers,

Brendo

 

[Jazzafish]

relax,

This is a different type of yeast! The fermentation is slower in a true lager temperature... so the signs you are used to are delayed for a few days. You will notice a change in ph then in gravity before krausen. More yeast would have been better, but still nothing to worry about as i'm sure it is fine.

 

[Ronin]

Hi Guys,

Yesterday I put down my first true lager. Its a Dark Lager (Schwarzbier) from the Vicbrew recipe book (with a few changes).

After chilling down to ambient temperature and pitching the yeast (equivalent dry yeast to Saflager), I chucked it straight in the fridge. As of now, it is down to 10 deg C (desired temp for recipe).

There is no action as yet, I'm wondering if most people let it start fermenting before moving it to the fridge? Also, I'm not 100% sure on the active temperature range for Saflager... It was meant to be a Danish Lager Activator, but it got frozen, then crushed in the fridge. I'm testing it out in a starter at the moment, but no luck so far..

Anyway, my main question is re the lager temperature. I'll probably give it until 6pm tonight (24hrs from pitching) to see any action before I start worrying. Any tips?

I just did my first lager at 10C with Wy2124 and it came out really clean, so I think the temperature is fine.

I pitched the yeast cold. On the advice from the guys at Grain and Grape I did a 4L starter and pitched into wort at 10C and I had a krausen within 24 hours. You may have underpitched from what I was told.

I think there's a few episodes of the Jamil show where they discuss wether to pitch lagers at room temperature then slowly chill them or pitch the yeast at fermenting temperatures. If I remember right, Jamil pitches cold but the other guy (John?) pitches warm and cools it down. They both seem to be happy with their methods so I think either method would be fine. See if you can download the episodes about lagers (can't remember which exact episode) and have a listen. There's a good episode on schwarzbiers too.

I'm quite happy with the pitching cold method.

James.

 

[jackmc]

Thanks for all the tips, I think the issue is underpitching and impatience

I will have to look through the back catalogue of the Jamil show to learn more about it.

By "no action", I mean no krausen, no bubbling, nothing. I rehydrated the yeast (as I normally do), but I don't think there was enough in there...

If it hasn't started moving in the next day or two, I'll come back

 

[Steve]

Thanks for all the tips, I think the issue is underpitching and impatience

I will have to look through the back catalogue of the Jamil show to learn more about it.

By "no action", I mean no krausen, no bubbling, nothing. I rehydrated the yeast (as I normally do), but I don't think there was enough in there...

If it hasn't started moving in the next day or two, I'll come back

Last time I did a lager I used two packs of dry yeast, pitch warm, wait for activity and then chill it down.
Cheers
Steve

 

[jackmc]

We have a krausen forming now, so all appears to be fine In the future I will use more yeast anyway, just in case.

Thanks for all the replies.

Jack

 

[Thirsty Boy]

It was pretty much always going to be alright.

Me, I am a pitch cold kind of a guy. I get the wort to about 1 degree below the temp I want to ferment at and pitch there - I think that you are more likely to suffer from diacetyl and unwanted esters if you pitch warm - pitching cold and fermenting cold keeps things lovely and clean all the way through.

NOT saying that everyone who pitches warm is wrong... god forbid I start a debate.... just saying why I pitch cold and assuring the OP that yeast is pretty robust... even if he tossed it in there cold, it would get itself going no problems.

TB

 

[matt white]

Leave it for two weeks and it'll be fine

 

[cozmocracker]

sorry to highjack your thread but i have a question concerning my lager. i had same problem slow start, i pitched 2nd packet of dried yeast after 24 hrs which made it the right amount for a cold start, 12 degrees. problem is i never noticed a real krausen crust form but gravity has dropped, SG 1042 currently 1020,should i rack to cube now and chill or wait untill gravity is stable? im unsure its going to reach est FG of 1010 when airlock has gone from heaps of activity to none in the last 2 days(i know not to trust them). any advice welcome. patience is a vertue i know i know.

cheers cozmo

 

[Thirsty Boy]

sorry to highjack your thread but i have a question concerning my lager. i had same problem slow start, i pitched 2nd packet of dried yeast after 24 hrs which made it the right amount for a cold start, 12 degrees. problem is i never noticed a real krausen crust form but gravity has dropped, SG 1042 currently 1020,should i rack to cube now and chill or wait untill gravity is stable? im unsure its going to reach est FG of 1010 when airlock has gone from heaps of activity to none in the last 2 days(i know not to trust them). any advice welcome. patience is a vertue i know i know.

cheers cozmo

answered your own question --- patience grasshopper.

Lagers often have a low krausen if your gravity dropped, its fermenting. Certainly DO NOT chill it when its at 1020 - I'm not a believer in racking to a secondary fermentor, so I cant tell you when to do that. But either way.. let it get to terminal gravity, and leave it there few a few days longer to clean up any diacetyl/acetylaldehyde etc then when you are sure the yeast has finished doing its job... chill it for conditioning and rack into your lagering container.

Perhaps bump the temp up by 1 degree and give the fermentor a light swirl, then just leave it be. It might take a couple of weeks - I generally leave my lagers in primary for around three weeks.

 

[cozmocracker]

thanks thirsty for reassuring what i already really knew, still new to this game and im trying to keep another fermenter from getting to hot with an iced towel and fan but its starting to creep up to 22 when i want it at 18, i need another fridge or two or three! bought a cube for the lager today and will rack when fermentation is done and let condition at close to zero for 8 weeks?

cheers

 

[chris.taylor.98]

I have to admit that lagers really aren't my thing.

The last one I did I underpitched and ended up with this very unyeast like yellow ball floating around near the top of the fermenter.

The yeast eventually kicked off after 5 days and subsequently got rid of what ever it was (still waiting for the beer to go sour but has not happened after 5 weeks).

Eventually I grew up another batch of yeast and pitched it in and it finally fermented out.

BTW here is a really good wiki on lager brewing that I stumbled upon.

 

[shayne]

chill it for conditioning and rack into your lagering container...

...I generally leave my lagers in primary for around three weeks.

I wonder if you can offer me any advice. I have a coopers euro lager in a fridge at around 18C for ~16days. i don't have a 'lagering' container and was just going to bottle it. should i 'cold crash' it in the fridge when i think it's ready, then bottle? if i did, what temperature and for how long, and once it's in the bottles do I bring it backup to 13-18 for carbonation? never done a lager, never cold-crashed.... i'm tempted to leave it in there for another week before doing anything, seems like most people are doing at least 3 weeks for a lager - but i don't know at what temp. i have a hydro, but i find it a little difficult to get consistent readings.

 

[Supra-Jim]

if you have a second fermenter, rack into that, then chill it in your fridge for two weeks, if you can wait that long.. Then bottle.

:icon_cheers: SJ

 

[matti]

sorry to highjack your thread but i have a question concerning my lager. i had same problem slow start, i pitched 2nd packet of dried yeast after 24 hrs which made it the right amount for a cold start, 12 degrees. problem is i never noticed a real krausen crust form but gravity has dropped, SG 1042 currently 1020,should i rack to cube now and chill or wait untill gravity is stable? im unsure its going to reach est FG of 1010 when airlock has gone from heaps of activity to none in the last 2 days(i know not to trust them). any advice welcome. patience is a vertue i know i know.

cheers cozmo

I generally rack when around that mark and lower temperature about 2 degrees and allow it to ferment out around 8-10 degrees. Then I let it sit there as cold as the fridge gets. about 3-4 degrees for 2-3 weeks.
After that kef or bottle as usual

thanks thirsty for reassuring what i already really knew, still new to this game and im trying to keep another fermenter from getting to hot with an iced towel and fan but its starting to creep up to 22 when i want it at 18, i need another fridge or two or three! bought a cube for the lager today and will rack when fermentation is done and let condition at close to zero for 8 weeks?

cheers

As above.
Every brew is different.
If you green beer is relatively clear alredy you may only need to lager it for a couple of week at below 4 degrees.
If you have a way to chill it below 2 degrees i reckon a wee is enough.
But if the brre is really cloudy still I suggest you let it sit longer.
If you reduce the temperature slowly the yeast will still work and give it a nice clean profile.
That is the reason I rack to secondary 2-3 of the way allow it to ferment out and let the yeastie beasties do all the work for me.
MAtti

 

[mika]

No Diacetyl rest ?