Fermentation Duration - Under Pressure?

[Nob]

Hi To All,

Generally I have created a brew using a manufactured Wort (All Inn style), extra 50g of extra Hops and a good Yeast. It's always been Lagers.
I typically start the Fermentation at 16C and drop the Temp from there where I end up at around 2C.

The fermentation period has only been around 4 days before transferring into a Keg for a week.

This time I thought I would start being creative. I used an Extract which went straight into the Fermenter to. dissolve with a few litres of water.
Meanwhile I boiled up 1Kg of milled Malt & 1Kg of Dextrose and placed Hops into this during the 60 minute boil.
Once it was complete I cooled using a tub filled with Ice.

Once at the correct Temp, I then mixed the Wort I had created with the Extract I had already placed in the Fermenter.

This was all done last Wednesday. It's now 7 days later it's still fermenting. I am guessing it could be towards the end of the week until it's complete. It's sitting in the fridge at 13C until it finishes then I will crash it down for a while before kegging.

When using Grains, does it normally take this long to Ferment??

Pete

 

[Coalface]

Did you mash those grains or just boil them?

EDIT:
Generally most recipes have a mash step, where crushed grains are held in water at a temperature well below boiling..... Barley has enzymes which break the malt sugars down into smaller sugar chains that yeast can digest. These work within a temperature range (well below boiling) Brewers "mash out" at around above 72c to disable these enzymes so not sure how much efficiency you'll get out of your wort.

 

[Nob]

Did you mash those grains or just boil them?

EDIT:
Generally most recipes have a mash step, where crushed grains are held in water at a temperature well below boiling..... Barley has enzymes which break the malt sugars down into smaller sugar chains that yeast can digest. These work within a temperature range (well below boiling) Brewers "mash out" at around above 72c to disable these enzymes so not sure how much efficiency you'll get out of your wort.

Hey Coalface,

not sure what ‘Mashing’ is. A all grains newb here

I put the milled malt into a grain bag, bought to 70C for 45mins then drained the water and used a warm water to rinse the grain into the pot before simmering for 60mins. At 10 into the boil I threw the hops in.

 

[golfandbrew]

Finishing a ferment in four days starting at 16c and ending at 2c seems a bit off to me.

It doesn't matter what you're using to make your beer. How you determine you have reached terminal gravity shouldn't be different.

When you're fermenting at 16c to 2c in four days, how have you been determining the ferment is finished?

 

[Nob]

Pressure, goldandbrew. If I see no further increase in pressure after dropping the fermenter pressure down from 15 to 10 for example.
If it keeps 10, then that tells me the fermentation is complete ???

 

[philrob]

Not always, it might simply have stalled, with your yeast gone to sleep, so to speak.
Starting at 16ºC and down to 2ºC over 4 days total is a very odd regime. What's your objective in doing this, and what's your source of this method?

 

[TwoCrows]

This article is about a fast ferment. Allow a few days between steps if you want to make sure it is complete if you don't want to do gravity readings.

https://brulosophy.com/methods/fermentation-schedules/

 

[fifis101]

I'm confused. First off 16degC is pretty cool, so a ferment at that temp should take much longer than 4 days. I would acccept 4 days if you were 23-25degC.
Another thing, 1kg of dextrose is normally all you'd need, so the extra 1kg of malt is extra and hence extra fermentable sugars, potentually a longer time.

 

[Nob]

OK, let's start again.......

I am making a Lager using the SAFLAGER W-34/70 Yeast. This yeast is to be added between 15C - 18C, which I did.
After a few days I dripped the Temperature down to 15C from 18C. This stayed at this Temp for 7 Days before dropping the Temp down last night to 9C.

This process was given to me by a number of sources.

I was expecting to see Fermentation stop or slow down after 4 days (again, got this from an outside source). I was using Pressure as my tool to provide me some idea of the state of the fermentation.

It is day 8 now and it is still maintaining and making pressure - so I have assumed that all the added Dextrose & Malt I had added needed a longer Fermentation time, this this post.

All I am after is, what would be the expected duration and would a raise the Temp back up to 15C to help it along??

I have included a photo which may assist in guessing the time needed.

Pete

 

[golfandbrew]

I won't begin to try and understand how pressure is a reliable indicator of fermentation being complete. Too many variables and just a simply a bad idea. Probably worse than relying only on airlock activity. Whatever the source for that information I would be wary of any other advice or go back with questions as something likely got lost in explaining the processes.

Keep it simple and use a hydrometer to test your OG and FG.

I've heard of people starting 34/70 at 15 and then dropping it but find that pitching a starter of multiple packs at 10c works great so haven't seen the need to try the alternative.

I also think dropping the temp on yeast is encouraging it to stall as mentioned above. So yet another reason I have not tried it.

Remember when recipes or instructions give a number of days for fermentation, this is simply a guide. Best to let the gravity of the beer determine when you're going raise or lower temp. Better yet, don't mess with it too much. Bump up for d-rest and down to cold crash. You will get good reliable results with this across many styles and yeasts.

 

[Nob]

I won't begin to try and understand how pressure is a reliable indicator of fermentation being complete. Too many variables and just a simply a bad idea. Probably worse than relying only on airlock activity. Whatever the source for that information I would be wary of any other advice or go back with questions as something likely got lost in explaining the processes.

Keep it simple and use a hydrometer to test your OG and FG.

I've heard of people starting 34/70 at 15 and then dropping it but find that pitching a starter of multiple packs at 10c works great so haven't seen the need to try the alternative.

I also think dropping the temp on yeast is encouraging it to stall as mentioned above. So yet another reason I have not tried it.

Remember when recipes or instructions give a number of days for fermentation, this is simply a guide. Best to let the gravity of the beer determine when you're going raise or lower temp. Better yet, don't mess with it too much. Bump up for d-rest and down to cold crash. You will get good reliable results with this across many styles and yeasts.

Hey Golfandbrew,

Thanks heaps for setting me straight. I have ordered a Refractometer, so on the next brew I will put it to use.

OK, last question. For the D-Rest, what would you suggest I aim for as far as the Temp is concerned??



Pete

 

[philrob]

Diacetyl Rest, about 18ºC.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

OK, let's start again.......

I am making a Lager using the SAFLAGER W-34/70 Yeast. This yeast is to be added between 15C - 18C, which I did.
After a few days I dripped the Temperature down to 15C from 18C. This stayed at this Temp for 7 Days before dropping the Temp down last night to 9C.

This process was given to me by a number of sources.

I was expecting to see Fermentation stop or slow down after 4 days (again, got this from an outside source). I was using Pressure as my tool to provide me some idea of the state of the fermentation.

It is day 8 now and it is still maintaining and making pressure - so I have assumed that all the added Dextrose & Malt I had added needed a longer Fermentation time, this this post.

All I am after is, what would be the expected duration and would a raise the Temp back up to 15C to help it along??

I think your next purchase should be How to Brew by John Palmer or download the free version. Explains just about everything you would want to know. Forget pressure for now, just get the basics right.

 

[golfandbrew]

Hey Golfandbrew,

Thanks heaps for setting me straight. I have ordered a Refractometer, so on the next brew I will put it to use.

OK, last question. For the D-Rest, what would you suggest I aim for as far as the Temp is concerned??



Pete

Refracs are good for quick checks while brewing. Once you get to fermentation you will need a hydrometer for accurate measurements. Plenty of material out there to read or watch about when to use each.

 

[Coalface]

Did you mash those grains or just boil them?

Hey Coalface,

not sure what ‘Mashing’ is. A all grains newb here

I put the milled malt into a grain bag, bought to 70C for 45mins then drained the water and used a warm water to rinse the grain into the pot before simmering for 60mins. At 10 into the boil I threw the hops in.

next time I'd suggest mashing the grains for 30 - 60 mins at 65ish C. remove the grains, then add the hops. But be aware that temperature and time will determine what you get from your hops. Boiling for longer will increase the bitterness, so if you're using a wort can it probably is already bitter enough. you might be better to add the hops at around 75 c and hold for 15 minutes or so and you will get a lot of aromatics and flavour without too much additional bitterness. this would be similar to "whirlpool hopping" you'd see in a recipe. or if you just want aromatics add the hops directly to your fermenter this is known as dry hopping.

Also, as mentioned by others pressure will not be a good indicator of whether your fermentation is complete, especially if you're dropping temperature which will reduce pressure as CO2 is more readily dissolved into your beer.

 

[golfandbrew]

I think your next purchase should be How to Brew by John Palmer or download the free version. Explains just about everything you would want to know. Forget pressure for now, just get the basics right.

Where do you download the free version? I used to go the website every now and again but it seems to have stopped working as of at least a couple months ago.

 

[philrob]

The free version has been archived and does not pop up on your regular google search.
The latest print version is much more up to date, anyway, as the original version, which was online, goes back close to 20 years, and things have moved on a bit.
It's worth splashing a bit of cash to get the latest print version.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Where do you download the free version? I used to go the website every now and again but it seems to have stopped working as of at least a couple months ago.

I don't know if Palmers book is on this site but I have downloaded a few technical brewing books from it.
https://www.academia.edu/search?langs=en&q=beer brewing books&utf8=✓

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Where do you download the free version? I used to go the website every now and again but it seems to have stopped working as of at least a couple months ago.

https://www.academia.edu/38440206/How_To_Brew_By_John_Palmer?email_work_card=view-paper