Fcuck you Tasmania

[Dave70]

It'll probabably bite them on the arse in the long run as it is some of the worst steel you can get and don't believe anything they tell you as they think 9001 gives it quality it is only a measure of everything being made exactly the same ie if the quality of materials is poor your final product will be poor

Don't think all the steel coming out of China is a throwback to Mao's Great Leap Forward with peasants smelting the stuff in coal fired clay furnaces out in the paddock. The Bluescope plants in Shanghai for one are as advanced as anything here, as its the product. Any structural steel used here is (or at least should be) backed by test certificates, metallurgist reports and a host of other 'signing off' nit picking. Thats part of the problem. Its an equally good product at a cheaper price.
Remember the old axiom 'Jap crap'? These days, 'Made in Japan' is almost the gold standard for reliable, precision equipment. From my Hilux (though it was assembled in Indoneisa..) to my D7000 Nikon and its disturbingly expensive lenses, basically the most high end stuff I own comes from Japan.

I'd wager we'll be saying the same thing about 'That Chinese made ****' in a few years also.

Except perhaps their hops..

 

[TasChris]

aah selective logging, such harmony with the land

Selective.jpg

Selective 2.jpg

Clearly it was a clearfall coupe. These photos are very stark straight after regen burning, however have a look at the site 2 years, 5yrs, 20 years after harvest when the regen is 20 feet tall and growing like the clappers.

There is a series of photos from a Styx Valley coupe that does capture this time scale. There is a need to tell the whole tale not just grap a one of shot. The average life span of a eucalypt is approx. 400-500 years if left undisturbed. This doesn't happen to often in an Australian context due to fire frequency.

 

[TasChris]

Here's another (less impartial, but well referenced) link re hemp. Some key points*:
- hemp "breathes in" 4 x the CO2 of trees
- 1 acre of hemp produces as much cellulose fibre product as 4.1 acres of trees
- hemp has a 12-14 week growing cycle Vs. circa 20 years for trees.

* as per my point in my earlier post, I realise that commercially grown trees are also not homogenous. For example, 20 years may not be a typical growth cycle in the Aus timber industry. It's definitely not 3 months though.

http://www.hemp-technologies.com/page33/page33.html

Its not just about C02 take up but how much it locks up and for how long. All C02 locked up in plant material will eventually be released as the material breaks down over time.
ie the solid timber in you house will lock up carbon for potentially hundreds of years, paper for much much less.
Getting a broad cross section of products is the ideal and allowing for long rotation length
ie native forests 70-100+yrs between harvest

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Thats it. The Chinese now have "State of the Art" equipment. A lot is euro designed ( some even made in europe ) and exported to China and set up.

Its going to be interesting over the next decade's as their workers put their hands up for more pay...bit like what happened in Mexico with the American made cars.

Africa is going to be the next " China". The Chinese are already looking over there as they know whats going to happen.

And when Africa is spent, then they will look at Australia for low wages after the LNP completely **** things for the working class and have us working for $2hr....

 

[philmud]

Its not just about C02 take up but how much it locks up and for how long. All C02 locked up in plant material will eventually be released as the material breaks down over time.
ie the solid timber in you house will lock up carbon for potentially hundreds of years, paper for much much less.
Getting a broad cross section of products is the ideal and allowing for long rotation length
ie native forests 70-100+yrs between harvest

That's an interesting point - I guess the end use for the carbon hemp determines whether it's stored or released back into the atmosphere. I'm not sure about the longevity of hemp based building products but I don't imagine it's substantially less than timber.

 

[shaunous]

Thats it. The Chinese now have "State of the Art" equipment. A lot is euro designed ( some even made in europe ) and exported to China and set up.

Its going to be interesting over the next decade's as their workers put their hands up for more pay...bit like what happened in Mexico with the American made cars.

Africa is going to be the next " China". The Chinese are already looking over there as they know whats going to happen.

And when Africa is spent, then they will look at Australia for low wages after the LNP completely **** things for the working class and have us working for $2hr....

I'd happily work for $2/hr..........................................................If petrol was .01c/Ltr, and a loaf of bread was .05c

 

[spog]

At $2.00 an hour there will be a massive market for push bikes ,AHB bulk buy anyone?
Cheers...spog...

 

[sponge]

I heard the Chinese make some really good ones..


h34r:

 

[spog]

From Aussie iron ore,mountain bikes would be the go,we can ride them in the fcuking great holes left over when the ore runs out.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

and the coal

 

[Elz]

I'd happily work for $2/hr..........................................................If petrol was .01c/Ltr, and a loaf of bread was .05c

I remember when minimum chips was 5 cents. Here's to going back to late 60's Aus, do not know the average hourly $ rate though

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

$2/hr

 

[madpierre06]

Trying to recall, in '79, on school holidays ( I was 17) I got paid $122 for three days work as a shearers cook out past Bollon. So about $40 a day for long days Then after leaving school went into a job as general hand for local transport mob paying about $90 a week after tax. Funny how you remember some figures, I can't remember other prices, I think fuel was about 30 or 40c a litre. Give or take 5 or 10c. And those cone shaped spaceship icecream cups with the gumball in the bottom were about 15c I think.

Been following this thread with interest, thanks to the Tassie boys for adding to clarification to the OP, I more than likely would have accepted what was originally posted without a great deal of questioning. Have my own thoughts on some of the later points raised but no time now to elaborate as am at work. Other than to say the bloody farm is being sold out from under the people of Austtralia to keep trade balance figures looking good, a house is no longer a home, it's just a bloody commodity these days and the only people who can realistically grab one are investors as the average bloke with/without a family has far fewer full time jobs left to chase which makes him far less likely to be able to source reasonable finance.

**** community/society, let's bow to the great idol 'economy'. Got to keep retail tills ticking over, eh. We'll set up a system where generally the average joe is only able/allowed to earn a total dollar figure which falls within a range allowed for to keep him under the yoke. That's part of my theory (conspiracy or otherwise) anyway.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Sentiments madpierre

I did my trade with the NSW Railway's. At the time all Gov owned agencies took in massive amounts of apprentice's, trained them, skilled them, then let them go, some stayed, many went.

Today, how many apprentice jobs do you see advertised ....very little

When I left school in year 10 you had 2 options, an Apprenticeship or do Yr12..

Its a shame that those government subsidised apprentice's are no longer available. Yes, it cost us, the tax payer initially, but the output of skilled tradespeople that it created is what keeps us going

It is a real shame that the trades have been bastardised to the point that the current Apprentices are now only used to going to Bun&^gs for info.

The funny thing is that the Gov is now paying 3rd party "organisations" to " manage" apprentices....


What a ******* joke

 

[madpierre06]

Makes you wonder where the tradies who should be around in 30 years or so are going to come from. And back in the day for the tax payer dollar you got a massive return to the community in general....someone with a trade who could employ abd train those to come after, who could buy a house (more work and income generated), spend money and pay tax. MOney spent geberated real money and all round dbenefits to this country as a whole.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

How many new builders, sparkies, plumbers, techs are coming thru the system

I am wondering NOW about what my kids that are 7 & 9 are going to do....

 

[davewalk]

Shopping has accounted for 70% of the Us economy for years now.

Just a grab bag...

From the New York Times back in 2009:

Given that consumer spending has in recent years accounted for 70 percent of the nation’s economic activity, a marginal shrinking could significantly depress demand for goods and services, discouraging businesses from hiring more workers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/29/business/economy/29consumer.html?_r=0

And more recently in Crain's Chicago Business in Nov last year:
Less optimism among Americans could slow the holiday shopping season and weigh on economic growth. Consumer spending drives 70 percent of economic activity.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20131126/NEWS07/131129839/consumer-confidence-in-u-s-economy-falls-to-7-month-low

Basically, Mr & Mrs Joe Average in the US go shopping at the mall and load up with Chinese made stuff. To pay China for it the US Govt gives China treasury notes denominated in US dollars (China has long been the US's biggest creditor - the US is in hock to China for $trillions).

To keep the domestic economic cycle going the US Federal Reserve has been issuing currency to banks at zero percent interest. And to keep the supply of US dollars up they just print more money whenever they need to (they call it 'Quantative Easing').

Now, all commodities have a price. If you ask what's the price of potatoes? the answer might be $3.50/kilo. But money is somewhat different. The price of money is determined by its interest. So if interest is 10% and you want to buy 1 dollar its going to cost you $1.10. But with the Federal Reserve issuing currency at zero percent it means it has no value - its worthless.

Its only a matter of time before the Chinese get fed up with US treasury notes that are worthless.

 

[jlm]

I like the way this topic has turned into a relatively reasonable conversation considering its origins. Cheers to the input from Tas/VicChris, and from prince imperial's too.

Have been without real internets for a few days seeing as I had to go out to here:



To talk about wiring the building, and then off to the Flinders Island to wire the house built around this:



When I get a week like this, I think the thread should be re-titled "**** Yeah-Tasmania!"

 

[dago001]

My sentiments exactly jlm (we must catch up for our yearly beer, sooner rather than later)
I work for one of those horrible Iron Ore places. A few weeks ago I had to go to our ship loading facility and had to put up with this.
Terrible, isnt it.

Tassie in the middle of winter isnt too bad, eh. Even for an Iron Ore plant.

 

[jlm]

If I had my wetsuit over here this week I'd seriously be considering getting in the water for abs.......Its shorts weather.

Will be out your way late Sep........Got some friends who've just moved there (guess where they're from.......more from the QLD) so when I've got the dates I'll let you know. Get a keg ready for the hand pump.

 

[bradsbrew]

The funny thing is that the Gov is now paying 3rd party "organisations" to " manage" apprentices....


What a ******* joke

Stu, still quite a few apprentices going through the public sector, obviously a lot less than back in your day because the govt has sold off a lot of its depts, what are these 3rd party apprentice management organisations that the govt are paying?

 

[dago001]

Get a keg ready for the hand pump.

Funnily enough, just need a Fullers London Pride clone.

 

[pedleyr]

I'm ******* jealous of you Tassie blokes, wish I could relocate there.

I know that the idea of people retiring to Tasmania may not be popular with you but I fully intend to, great place, great people. I hope the issues confronting the state can be sorted out.

 

[pedleyr]

In 1979 there were 136,000 apprentices in Australia (source)
Population: 14.3 million (source)

In May 2012, there were 219,300 people aged 15–64 years who were employed as apprentices or trainees and part of the Australian Apprenticeship Scheme (source)
Population (June 2012): 22.6 million (source)

So, from 1979 to May 2012, there was a 61.25% increase in the number of apprentices.

Over only a one month longer period, the population increased by ~58%.

Anyone care to comment on the "apprenticeship issue" in light of some actual facts? Falsifiable statements would obviously be preferred.

I do say that my understanding is that the number of apprentices is on a current downward trend but within the usual range of fluctuation. Could the system be better? Perhaps, but its pretty interesting to see how gut feelings and anecdotal experiences stack up to actual facts.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Stu, still quite a few apprentices going through the public sector, obviously a lot less than back in your day because the govt has sold off a lot of its depts, what are these 3rd party apprentice management organisations that the govt are paying?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

, what are these 3rd party apprentice management organisations that the govt are paying?

You really are out of the loop Brad

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

In May 2012, there were 219,300 people aged 15–64 years who were employed as apprentices or trainees and part of the Australian Apprenticeship Scheme (source)

Nice manipulation of figures,,,,how many actual apprentices are there under the age of 22....

 

[pedleyr]

Sorry what's your point? The figures are the figures, I quoted that from the source.

The figures from 1979 are like for like best I can see. So I take it you have no comment on the actual facts?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What are the actual figures for apprenticeships, not the combined ******** of " trainees"..


That is my point.

 

[pedleyr]

Have to follow up here. Even if I or someone else did manipulate the figures there by specifying an age range (the same range as all employment and workforce participation age ranges mind you) what would it mean in context here?

Unless you have something to suggest that there were a statistically significant number of apprentices aged outside of 15-64 in 1979 I'm genuinely lost as to what relevance your comment has.

My view is that this vague manipulation accusation is a complete straw man on your part but I'm happy to hear you clarify.