Fcuck you Tasmania
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It would appear the only way you can protest is completely naked in an empty field laying prostrate ?tavas said:
If it weren't for folk that have the energy to protest we would all be just compliant sheep of the human farm.
Just sayin.
Nev
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Wait till they start dumping shit in your back yard, then see how quite you will be.tavas said:
But what ever works for you.
Nev
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I say **** em all but we do have to listen to all, its required to be civilised.
No wait lets just shoot the fuckers we dont agree with , or cut their heads off ?
No wait lets just shoot the fuckers we dont agree with , or cut their heads off ?
The drivel doesn't come from the greenies. Greenies were going to shut the industry down that I work in but the companies beat them to it. Around 2500 jobs gone this year. Lots of people think that we should kill the greenies and others they don't agree with. Perhaps they should buy a ticket and go see what it is like in a place like that, I wonder how long they would survive.
glenos
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Happy to listen to them, as long as they are willing to listen to me.Online Brewing Supplies said:
shaunous
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There is a place for greenies, just like there is a place for us gun toting rednecks, it's the radicals on either side that need sorting out.
That's not to say that if they made it legal to buy big magazine full automatic rifles for 'vermin control' I wouldn't buy one
That's not to say that if they made it legal to buy big magazine full automatic rifles for 'vermin control' I wouldn't buy one
pk.sax
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I think it'd be very green of me to sort out every repulsive killer of natural life. But I hold my hand, nature's beings - even human - have a right to carve their living space. Within reason. Don't go destroying what you don't need to.
jlm
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Where to start.......
The OP's link to a pretty shitty article followed by a blunt and stupid statement achieves nothing except putting an opinion into people's minds that is as equally dangerous as the "Log the **** out of the WHA to give people jobs" mentality. As usual the truth is lying in the middle, but its the people who shout the loudest on either side who get heard.
Unless you've spent some time down here its probably a bit hard to see how things actually are as you'll generally only get one side of the story so gather round ol' uncle jlm while he tells you his story of moving to TAS from Brisbane...........
A bit of background to the state first though. There was an interesting article in the Weekend Aus Magazine (yeah, yeah.....Murdoch media......Blah blah blah) last weekend that spelled out quite a bit if you caught it or chased it down but it can be summed pretty simply. State needs some more edu-ma-cation. In general kids in TAS are not encouraged to go to Yr12. In fact, once you get past Yr10, unless you live around a major centre you're pretty much fucked, school stops at Yr10. So if you live in parts of the Huon for example, you put your kid on a bus for an hour plus trip if you want them to study at college (grade 11 and 12 for the rest of us). **** knows when I was 15 that wouldn't happen. But you never did it so why would you encourage your child when you turned out all right?
Which brings me to my story and perhaps TAS's greatest problem. Dumb ******* Tasmanians. This is not an opinion that will win me many friends but sadly its the truth. In one of the OP's earlier "I don't believe in Facebook but check out this shit! LMS if you agree!" threads he pointed out that a VERY large amount of adult Tasmanians are illiterate. I'd never come across such an animal in Brisbane but it only took me a few weeks of work down here to experience it, and I was ******* shocked. Then, the same blokes 16YO kid starts doing work experience for us and **** me.......This kid can't read or write either (but what chance did he stand with living with his illiterate father?). He wants an apprenticeship and it basically came to me to say "Dude........if you can't read there's no chance of you completing an apprenticeship".
So you've got a fair bit of a generationally (look its a real word, the computer didn't try to fix it) enhance/encouraged hand brake put on the most basic of the problems that the state has......education. I hear some real fucked up stories from my brother in law who's a teacher, but this post will be long enough without those anecdotes .
But continuing my story and dumb ******* Tasmanians (lets abbreviate it to DFT's from here on in), in my experience the average DFT thinks that they are entitled to a very good wage while taking on no real responsibility or doing any real work to make whoever is paying their wage money. Now I don't want to make it sound like every tasmanian is a DFT (far from it....I've worked with some EXTREMELY professional companies that are stocked with and run by tasmanians, and know many, many hard working and professional natives) or that the attitude expressed above is limited to this state. I just come across it a lot more down here.
One of the blokes who (still, amazingly) works in the company I do took particular exception to me basically being made a foreman within a few months of starting work for this mob. The main issue was that I was getting paid more than he was, in his mind everyone in the company should be on the same rate (never mind I'm still offended that his $/hr is so close to mine). So despite the fact that I have to manage a million dollar contract to ensure that its profitable so we all get money into our bank accounts every week, and he has to fit off power points, its bullshit that I'm getting more than him. I never would have picked him as a communist but there we go.
Thats the attitude that I come across down here sooooo much. We're currently in the process of putting on a 1st year apprentice and the boss is saying we'd need to pay him around $15/hr for him to take the job. Really? ******* 1st year? Or he'd rather not work?
What does this have to do with the threads topic? Well, nothing really until you consider we've got the states with the biggest mining royalties boots on our throats screaming at us "******* walk on your own two feet you useless *****!". Which I'm really sure everyone in the state, DFT's included would like.
A key part of walking on our own would be reducing the amount of DFT's in the population. Making people less dumb in my experience has made them better people more capable of paying their way in life. Which with my limited knowledge of the economics and such like is generally perceived as being a good thing. Getting more and more schools going all the way through to grade 12 would be a great start. Does cost money though. If only we could generate more income though leasing access to some (not all, leave the WHA and other significant areas alone) of the states natural resources to generate some coin.
But, folks like the OP won't have that.........So hand over you're GST coin then. We're the COMMONWEALTH of AUS after all right? As I think Glenos pointed out, we can be your national park or your bottomless GST money pit.
Which leads us to the next part of my story, before someone points out that tourism is the way forward for the state. Everyone can get a job in some sort of touristy job right? Well, I did that too. I got a job that many on this site would crave. Brewing beer in a brewery that turns over a serious amount of money at its cellar door and is part of the "tourist trail" in that area.
The pay is shit. As most jobs in hospitality are, and that is where the majority of the tourism related jobs are. So why would a DFT earning maybe $5-7 dollars more per hour driving a logging truck or on the end of a chainsaw or any other job thats at the end of the forestry game? And lets not forget that tourism work is seasonal, its ******* cold down here in winter and unsurprisingly the trade drops right off. I've just had 6 weeks without work at the brewery because there's no need and stocks are high.
Luckily I've got my other job, running another big electrical job which is actually inside the WHA. Its taken something like 20 years for this thing to go ahead, due to opposition from green groups (mainly the most vocal "against everything" type mobs). So a pretty cool building built in 1945 out on the middle of a lake which has been sitting empty since 1992 can't have a little bit of TLC and have some work put into it to give some DFT's in the area the chance at some regular employment, cleaning toilets or something. Apparently not. Its better to have the building sitting empty stinking of diesel (and it still does now even though the plaster's up which should be a worry for the developer) about 3K's from the Lyell HWY, the wall in the wilderness, the derwent bridge hotel (which does the most bitchin' parmi I've ever had), pasture that runs cattle and sheep. But a developers fer it so I'm again' it.
So if we add all of these things (and trust me, this is the abbreviated version) up hopefully it gives a little more insight and perhaps a little more food for thought than the "never been down there or really know anything about the place but why should that stop my keyboard warrior skillz" OP's myopic view of things. Give us the opportunity to walk on our own 2 feet or just give us the coin to basically fund the state on what's basically GST welfare.
The OP's link to a pretty shitty article followed by a blunt and stupid statement achieves nothing except putting an opinion into people's minds that is as equally dangerous as the "Log the **** out of the WHA to give people jobs" mentality. As usual the truth is lying in the middle, but its the people who shout the loudest on either side who get heard.
Unless you've spent some time down here its probably a bit hard to see how things actually are as you'll generally only get one side of the story so gather round ol' uncle jlm while he tells you his story of moving to TAS from Brisbane...........
A bit of background to the state first though. There was an interesting article in the Weekend Aus Magazine (yeah, yeah.....Murdoch media......Blah blah blah) last weekend that spelled out quite a bit if you caught it or chased it down but it can be summed pretty simply. State needs some more edu-ma-cation. In general kids in TAS are not encouraged to go to Yr12. In fact, once you get past Yr10, unless you live around a major centre you're pretty much fucked, school stops at Yr10. So if you live in parts of the Huon for example, you put your kid on a bus for an hour plus trip if you want them to study at college (grade 11 and 12 for the rest of us). **** knows when I was 15 that wouldn't happen. But you never did it so why would you encourage your child when you turned out all right?
Which brings me to my story and perhaps TAS's greatest problem. Dumb ******* Tasmanians. This is not an opinion that will win me many friends but sadly its the truth. In one of the OP's earlier "I don't believe in Facebook but check out this shit! LMS if you agree!" threads he pointed out that a VERY large amount of adult Tasmanians are illiterate. I'd never come across such an animal in Brisbane but it only took me a few weeks of work down here to experience it, and I was ******* shocked. Then, the same blokes 16YO kid starts doing work experience for us and **** me.......This kid can't read or write either (but what chance did he stand with living with his illiterate father?). He wants an apprenticeship and it basically came to me to say "Dude........if you can't read there's no chance of you completing an apprenticeship".
So you've got a fair bit of a generationally (look its a real word, the computer didn't try to fix it) enhance/encouraged hand brake put on the most basic of the problems that the state has......education. I hear some real fucked up stories from my brother in law who's a teacher, but this post will be long enough without those anecdotes .
But continuing my story and dumb ******* Tasmanians (lets abbreviate it to DFT's from here on in), in my experience the average DFT thinks that they are entitled to a very good wage while taking on no real responsibility or doing any real work to make whoever is paying their wage money. Now I don't want to make it sound like every tasmanian is a DFT (far from it....I've worked with some EXTREMELY professional companies that are stocked with and run by tasmanians, and know many, many hard working and professional natives) or that the attitude expressed above is limited to this state. I just come across it a lot more down here.
One of the blokes who (still, amazingly) works in the company I do took particular exception to me basically being made a foreman within a few months of starting work for this mob. The main issue was that I was getting paid more than he was, in his mind everyone in the company should be on the same rate (never mind I'm still offended that his $/hr is so close to mine). So despite the fact that I have to manage a million dollar contract to ensure that its profitable so we all get money into our bank accounts every week, and he has to fit off power points, its bullshit that I'm getting more than him. I never would have picked him as a communist but there we go.
Thats the attitude that I come across down here sooooo much. We're currently in the process of putting on a 1st year apprentice and the boss is saying we'd need to pay him around $15/hr for him to take the job. Really? ******* 1st year? Or he'd rather not work?
What does this have to do with the threads topic? Well, nothing really until you consider we've got the states with the biggest mining royalties boots on our throats screaming at us "******* walk on your own two feet you useless *****!". Which I'm really sure everyone in the state, DFT's included would like.
A key part of walking on our own would be reducing the amount of DFT's in the population. Making people less dumb in my experience has made them better people more capable of paying their way in life. Which with my limited knowledge of the economics and such like is generally perceived as being a good thing. Getting more and more schools going all the way through to grade 12 would be a great start. Does cost money though. If only we could generate more income though leasing access to some (not all, leave the WHA and other significant areas alone) of the states natural resources to generate some coin.
But, folks like the OP won't have that.........So hand over you're GST coin then. We're the COMMONWEALTH of AUS after all right? As I think Glenos pointed out, we can be your national park or your bottomless GST money pit.
Which leads us to the next part of my story, before someone points out that tourism is the way forward for the state. Everyone can get a job in some sort of touristy job right? Well, I did that too. I got a job that many on this site would crave. Brewing beer in a brewery that turns over a serious amount of money at its cellar door and is part of the "tourist trail" in that area.
The pay is shit. As most jobs in hospitality are, and that is where the majority of the tourism related jobs are. So why would a DFT earning maybe $5-7 dollars more per hour driving a logging truck or on the end of a chainsaw or any other job thats at the end of the forestry game? And lets not forget that tourism work is seasonal, its ******* cold down here in winter and unsurprisingly the trade drops right off. I've just had 6 weeks without work at the brewery because there's no need and stocks are high.
Luckily I've got my other job, running another big electrical job which is actually inside the WHA. Its taken something like 20 years for this thing to go ahead, due to opposition from green groups (mainly the most vocal "against everything" type mobs). So a pretty cool building built in 1945 out on the middle of a lake which has been sitting empty since 1992 can't have a little bit of TLC and have some work put into it to give some DFT's in the area the chance at some regular employment, cleaning toilets or something. Apparently not. Its better to have the building sitting empty stinking of diesel (and it still does now even though the plaster's up which should be a worry for the developer) about 3K's from the Lyell HWY, the wall in the wilderness, the derwent bridge hotel (which does the most bitchin' parmi I've ever had), pasture that runs cattle and sheep. But a developers fer it so I'm again' it.
So if we add all of these things (and trust me, this is the abbreviated version) up hopefully it gives a little more insight and perhaps a little more food for thought than the "never been down there or really know anything about the place but why should that stop my keyboard warrior skillz" OP's myopic view of things. Give us the opportunity to walk on our own 2 feet or just give us the coin to basically fund the state on what's basically GST welfare.
Liam_snorkel
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Posting to subscribe. I have something to say but I'm currently in a social situation so can't commit. My old man was in the forestry industry for 30 years so I'm not an ignoramus. Glad jlm piped up.
shaunous
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I watched over and over as Indonesian companies absolutely raped forests in PNG and left them absolutely worthless empty, then disappeared overnight once the wood was sold leaving no money or workers to clean up and regenerate, just so we can buy cheap decking at Bunnings because it's to hard to cut down a tree in Australia without some idiot taking photo's, reporting you to the authorities and then writing an article in the local papers 'Letter To The editor'.
It's not just the Forestry Industry, pretty much every industry in Aus is going to shit except the ones that involve digging gigantic holes in the earth and extracting minerals.
Buy local and support our own industries. Not pigs from china, sugar from Brazil, wood from small South Pacific islands, etc etc.
But hey, I can't even get my own mother to buy local and stop saving 50c by shopping at Aldi, Woolworths and Coles, so it'd be impossible to tell a bunch of home brewers I barely know to do it.
It's not just the Forestry Industry, pretty much every industry in Aus is going to shit except the ones that involve digging gigantic holes in the earth and extracting minerals.
Buy local and support our own industries. Not pigs from china, sugar from Brazil, wood from small South Pacific islands, etc etc.
But hey, I can't even get my own mother to buy local and stop saving 50c by shopping at Aldi, Woolworths and Coles, so it'd be impossible to tell a bunch of home brewers I barely know to do it.
B
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Well said jlm, however I would like to think that the govt needs to look at their education model. If there is a high level of illiteracy how does going to year 12 fix that? That should be well and truly identified a lot earlier. I support kids going to year 12 if they are going to benefit from it and maybe also go to university, but I would also like to see kids leaving school after completing their junior certificate (is that even a thing anymore?) grade 10, if they are getting into an apprenticeship. Why make them do an extra 2 years if they are only going to spend their time disrupting the people that want to be there. In qld we have the doorways to construction which sort of covers that cohort (for construction) but still has them attending school so they get the year 12 certificate, and the government is happy with the figures, problem is they have spent 1 day a week during school term weeks on the site and finish grade 12 as a 2nd year apprentice, if they do a cert II at school that would make them a 3rd year in some trades, who employs a relative green apprentice as a 3rd year?
What about long term VET pre employment programs for the cohort of 15 - 17 year olds that don't want/need the senior certificate?
What about long term VET pre employment programs for the cohort of 15 - 17 year olds that don't want/need the senior certificate?
pk.sax
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Brad, I think jlm is talking more about how used to getting handouts they have become with nothing productive to put themselves to. Even working in timber they'd have some work ethic compared to now and possibly motivation to get out of that hole.
The government really needs to make some leadership decisions. They need to introduce work programs that actually teach skills, even if they cost more to run than what the dole costs. I have a feeling the governments have progressively destroyed the people's will to work hard by handing out money. We decry cuts to education and hospitals but in reality some of these are being rorted for unemployment support of the extremely lazy. Tasmania seems to have gone to the extreme there with higher costs of operation on everything else and nothing left to do. Haven't met many tassie people that left who'd want to go back. It's the same with people having left adelaide, Canberra, all those regional places. Quite at odds with people from Mel, SYD, brissy who jump at a chance to return.
So far, whenever we face the decision between backing up industry and our labour culture, quality of life etc against cheap unethically sourced competition our government takes the easy route and taps the resources pile to apply a balm to a festering sore. For Tassie, that approach means destroying the environment and would seem is the core of the problem here. Where would the line be drawn.
The government really needs to make some leadership decisions. They need to introduce work programs that actually teach skills, even if they cost more to run than what the dole costs. I have a feeling the governments have progressively destroyed the people's will to work hard by handing out money. We decry cuts to education and hospitals but in reality some of these are being rorted for unemployment support of the extremely lazy. Tasmania seems to have gone to the extreme there with higher costs of operation on everything else and nothing left to do. Haven't met many tassie people that left who'd want to go back. It's the same with people having left adelaide, Canberra, all those regional places. Quite at odds with people from Mel, SYD, brissy who jump at a chance to return.
So far, whenever we face the decision between backing up industry and our labour culture, quality of life etc against cheap unethically sourced competition our government takes the easy route and taps the resources pile to apply a balm to a festering sore. For Tassie, that approach means destroying the environment and would seem is the core of the problem here. Where would the line be drawn.
Not For Horses
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You obviously haven't met many people from Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane that have moved to Tassie. Or the tropics for that matter. Most of them love it here and think that it's the best thing that they have ever done. It seems to be either tropical Qld or Tas.practicalfool said:
That leads to an interesting point about aging populations and hospitals too.
People want to spend their working life in Melbourne or Sydney and therefore demand that their tax dollars are spent there but then complain when they move to Tas or FNQ because the services are so shitty.
Hang on a minute there. Let's all take a bit of responsibility here.practicalfool said:
Your government doesn't make you pay 20c less for your tinned fruit and veg because it's cheaper than local.
Your government is not forcing you to buy $1/L milk and pushing smaller producers to the point where they fold.
Your government is not making you buy imported vehicles.
Your government is not creating a massive increase in online retail at the expense of local production and retail.
At some point we all have to start thinking about where our consumables are coming from and who made them.
Brad, I feel that one of our biggest problems with education here is the lack of support at home and the little value that some people place on education. Education continues at home and we are slowly getting more and more unemployed/desolate parents here. That is a snowball kind of situation right there.
Lump that in with the fact that we are a whole state where in actual fact we are in a pretty similar situation to areas like the Goulburn Valley or regional Queensland.
Imagine if there was a new state border drawn through Qld at Hervey Bay and all but a handful of mines were removed. How do you suppose that state would do when talking about education, services and resources etc?
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