Electric Kettle Elements

[Franko]

Hi Brewers,
Im looking for a electric kettle heater element to be used in a keg for a HLT
preferably with a din type connector.
Just wondering if anyone here has one installed in a keg and be able to tell me where to buy one from
cheers
Franko

 

[Franko]

Ive got two of these electric elements brand new but they are 15-20 amp and dont wont to rewire the garage to use them.
These are elements they use in hot water systems

 

[Millet Man]

Hi Brewers,
Im looking for a electric kettle heater element to be used in a keg for a HLT
preferably with a din type connector.
Just wondering if anyone here has one installed in a keg and be able to tell me where to buy one from
cheers
Franko

[post="120736"][/post]​

Franko,

I tried to find one myself a while ago, but could not find one as kettle are mostly a throw away item. So I bought a 2200W kettle for $15 and pulled it apart and inserted the element, works fine. Just make sure you cover the electrics on the outside to protect from water, I cut the plastic kettle handle to fit onto the side of the keg.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[yardy]

Hi Brewers,
Im looking for a electric kettle heater element to be used in a keg for a HLT
preferably with a din type connector.
Just wondering if anyone here has one installed in a keg and be able to tell me where to buy one from
cheers
Franko

[post="120736"][/post]​

Franko,

I tried to find one myself a while ago, but could not find one as kettle are mostly a throw away item. So I bought a 2200W kettle for $15 and pulled it apart and inserted the element, works fine. Just make sure you cover the electrics on the outside to protect from water, I cut the plastic kettle handle to fit onto the side of the keg.

Cheers, Andrew.

[post="120745"][/post]​

MM,

any chance of seeing a pic ?

cheers

yard

 

[bighanno]

These elements are about $40 from HBS

 

[normell]

Hey Chippy, finished that coffee yet, have you got a one litre coffee mug :blink:

 

[vlbaby]

franko,
i got my element from a 'belle' kettle bought from bigw. Cost about $10-15 from memory. Fairly easy to fit to a keg, but you will need a big hole saw ~40mm diameter.
You can use a standard iec plug ( computer type lead) on this one, but you'll need to cover it with a jiffy box from dick smith or similiar.

vl.



edit: some bugger vandalised my keg...

 

[Jazzafish]

I got one of these from ESB instead



Not that there is anything wrong with the others, just another option. You can move it around to heat anywhere.

 

[Millet Man]

MM,

any chance of seeing a pic ?

cheers

yard

[post="120747"][/post]​

Yardy,

Here's a pic of the outside, it was from an old SS kitchen kettle that went belly up. The element from a $15 new one fitted perfectly.



I also have a heat stick like Jazzafish, great for decoctions and helping bring the wort up to boiling.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[kirem]

your making some big assumptions there.

Are you offering to test our kettles and HLTs for us? :unsure:

 

[vlbaby]

All i will say is those setups are very dangourous

They should have overtemperture protection, (that is tested), and should have the tank relabily earthed for a start

I hope you guys dont have kids playing near them.

You all seem to be worried about covering the terminals but that would be the least of my concerns

I work for a electrical saftey laboritory testing products for a living. And just wacking an element in something is not considered safe

Companies that make hotwater services and kettles pay thousands of dollars to have destructive testing done on there products to make sure they are safe

I realy dont think you should be showing pictures of dodgy setups like that, because someone will eventully get hurt

[post="120858"][/post]​

Your getting a bit carried away arent you?
My kettle is fully earthed also and contains two over temperature bi-metal cutout switches at the rear of the element.
Plus for added protection, the power supply cord is RCD protected.
I dont need a laboratory tested certificate to tell me that this unit is safe. The only safety risk that a water heater such as this presents, is a hot water scalding if its tipped over. Believe me. it aint gonna tip over! It weighs over 50 kgs when full and is very sturdy.
Thanks for concern, but its not needed.

VL.

 

[berazafi]

Chippy

I will try and construct a post for basic electrical saftey over the next couple of days outlining some of the very basic things.

However in the mean time, if anyone would like some advise or constuctive critisim on construcing 240V hlts please pm me or i am more than happy to chat on msn, [email protected]

 

[sintax69]

Could you pls tell me what Is wrong with using

* belle element mounted in a keg
* thermal still intacked
* inclosed in a clipsal IP56 encloser
* earth running out of encloser to earth the keg
* elements controlled thru a dixell controller
* RCD on the end of the lead
* finally a 15 Amp C/B feeding a single GPO

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/Temp...t3607-s180.html
Picture half way down

I know I dont know it all but having 2 Electrical Engennering Diplomas and lic sparky for 20 yrs I think I have covered most of the bases with this design which I and a few others here have come up with .We aint just jaming elements in a bucket my kettle has at a guess $300 worth of control and safty equipment installed on it (Dont tell the missus or the boss).

And yes I have kids runnning around it and Iam alot more worried about burns that shocks

 

[redbeard]

I also have an ex-belle element in a ss vessel, which is grounded to the same and has a RCD. Have been using it for 5 months without problems. I consider myself careful when it comes to 240v. If you think some of the designs / instructions presented here are dangerous, pls identify them. I have no intention of hurting myself or any that come in contact with my brewery.

cheers

 

[berazafi]

I have removed my previous posts as it has offended some, i appologise for that.

Sintax, it looks as if you have covered the majority of the problems that could occur.

 

[berazafi]

Ok I have put together a list of 10 important things to take into consideration when designing or adding an electrical element to a metal vessel

1. Earthing.

The earth needs to be reliably fixed to the container.
The earthing conductor should become the last to get tight if the supply cord was to be pulled out of the enclosure
The earth should not be connected onto the back of the element as there is usually a gasket in between it and the container, and there is also ussully a resistor between the back of the element and the element it self

2, Thermal protection

The Thermal protection needs to operate protecting the element from destruction if it is run dry.
The thermal protection should also be in both sides of the supply to the element (eg two devices) , this can be done also by using the thermostat as one protection method, however the thermostat probe needs to be placed close enough to the element to protect it

3. Water Protection

The enclosure around the element and thermals needs to be able to protect the devcice agains splashing and overfilling and the like.

4. Temperature of conductors and supply cord

The temperatures inside the terminal box will probably be higher than a standard supply cord is rated, make sure all the wiring and the supply cord can handle at least 100degC, if you have hotter temperatures inside your enclosure than this make sure you use wiring that is rated to those temperatures

5. Reliable connections

The wiring should be designed so if it falls off then it cant escape to personal contact (or if you want to be extra careful the earthed metal), this can be achieved sometimes by tying the wires together at each termination.

6. The uses of switches and connectors

No switch or connector should be used that does not have a suitable IP rating (Water protection), I would suggest IPX4 at a minimum, the higher the numbers the better.

7. Impact protection

The terminal enclosure needs to be able to withstand knocks and bumps.

8. Use a RCD of the appropriate rating

9. Use an element that is within the rating of the power outlet you will be connecting it to

10. Seek Help if you are not confident, Electricians can perform some basic tests to see if in mistakes have been made and can look at the wiring connections to make sure they are in the correct locations

This post is not designed to be the definitive guide to safety but represents some key safety points.

Furtherinformation could be found in AS3350.1:2002

If I have forgotten any key points or you would like to add to this list feel free

 

[crozdog]

Hotco are a great online source of elements & will even custom make it that's what you need. There web site isn't the prettiest, but it is functional. They have offices or distributors in most states.

Link to hotco here

They also sell "overside" immersion heaters & "pail" heaters which many AHB'ers use.

No affiliation etc

Crozdog

 

[Franko]

thanks guys

 

[mika]

AS3000 I think is the wiring code, at least that's what we've been using at work. Generally nothing with an IP rating under IP2x (finger proof) is acceptable for most industrial situations. So to add to what berazafi is saying, i'd state the min. as IP24. But unless you're buying switches or terminals I guess the IP rating ain't going to mean much.
Common sense goes a long way, but electricity will kill, better to get the sparky to check it if you have any sort of doubt at all.

 

[berazafi]

Mika good post, just a few things to add, AS3000 only covers instalation of approved components (generally), AS3350 and other standards like it covers the approval of the components (or complete systems) not just the wiring to them,

You are correct, at a minimum the product once finished should be IP24.

I appologise as we ussually just test to the IP standard (X4)

the 2 bit is covered by the AS3350 standard

therefore making the overall product ip24