Efficiency according to Brewmate

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Crusty

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Birkdale Bob said:
Thanks for trying to keep this on track. I read your later post but decided to quote this one. Like you, I use a 40L urn and measure as you do. My concern with using the actual kettle volume to measure efficiency is that if you , for instance, use 80% as your efficiency on the first page of Brew Mate, then you would have to be spot on with the absorption rate and evaporation percentage that you use as a basis for your recipe. I don't think that you can predict absorption rate, it depends on the grain that you are using and the temperatures you have mashed at, and how good your squeeze technique is, plus mashout. I know that some days I seem to get a better boil than on other days, so that is another factor. I am happy to use volume into cube rather than volume in kettle to calculate my efficiency.
Yeah but if you don't hit the required numbers bang on, your volume at the end of the brew day will be more or less & I agree, volumes vary from brew to brew & there's so many factors that can swing it either way on the day. I just add my total volume I've made on the day, punch in the gravity of that collected volume & there's the Brewhouse efficiency. I set my efficiency to 80% & sometimes it's a touch more trub or slightly higher gravity but generally volumes & @80% efficiency are spot on.
I'm a tad baffled just how BrewMate calculates the values & I have been trying to contact Rob for input to this discussion but can't seem to track him down.
I'm not 100% sure how it works it out but every time I brew & set my recipe up @80% eff, 23lt batch, I get 20lt into my cube & 3lt to trub after cooling loss so the trub inclusion plays some part in that total batch size. If I was to set the recipe up for 20lt batch size ( into fermenter / cube volume ) I can almost guarantee that my volume into the fermenter / cube will fall short the exact amount I have my trub set to.
I've brewed with BeerSmith & Beer Tools Pro & set my recipes up so that trub excluded, I get 20lt into my cube but BrewMate is different & the calculation is not the same as some of the other software out there.
 

Liam_snorkel

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Crusty said:
I'm not 100% sure how it works it out but every time I brew & set my recipe up @80% eff, 23lt batch, I get 20lt into my cube & 3lt to trub after cooling loss so the trub inclusion plays some part in that total batch size. If I was to set the recipe up for 20lt batch size ( into fermenter / cube volume ) I can almost guarantee that my volume into the fermenter / cube will fall short the exact amount I have my trub set to.
I think this is why you've caused so much controversy in the thread. When I set my recipes up as 22 litres - I get 22 litres in the fermenter, and I suspect the other guys get similar results too.
 

Crusty

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Liam_snorkel said:
I think this is why you've caused so much controversy in the thread. When I set my recipes up as 22 litres - I get 22 litres in the fermenter, and I suspect the other guys get similar results too.
It's far from controversy.
22lt @ what efficiency?
Can you post a screen shot of your brew day sheet?
 

Liam_snorkel

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for this one I hit pretty close to the numbers.
pre-boil - 29.4l
post-boil - 25.6l
into fermenter - 22.5l
actual efficiency - 78.5%

like I said before - I've kept a track of my last 18 brews and use the efficiency after losses. It works for me, and makes sense on the brew sheet.

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GuyQLD

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For what it's worth, if you do volume (inc trub) @ x O.G. = 80% you'll find that Volume (ex trub) @ x O.G = 70% (the % values are made up, I'd have to actually calculate it for proper values) due to trub loss "skimming" an amount of recovered extract straight off the top.

So if Crusty made his recipes in Beersmith (which uses the including Trub values) then he SHOULD be using the same method in Brewmate if he wants to be consistent (inc trub)

I started in Brewmate and have always calculated minus trub, so my efficiencies look lower however my conversion (preboil) efficiency would be similar/same.

(For example - the 67% IPA I posted when calculated according to the Beersmith Model is about 78% from memory)

Liam's values are just nuts. I bow to you good sir.
 

jc64

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Liam_snorkel said:
for this one I hit pretty close to the numbers.
pre-boil - 29.4l
post-boil - 25.6l
into fermenter - 22.5l
actual efficiency - 78.5%

like I said before - I've kept a track of my last 18 brews and use the efficiency after losses. It works for me, and makes sense on the brew sheet.
That looks right, my boil off is higher and I lose 1 Liter more to trub. That why my Brewhouse efficiency is 72% rather than 78%. My Brewhouse is less efficient. If I wasn't a idiot I'd post a screenshot of my brewday sheet :)
 

Crusty

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It makes perfect sense Liam & looking at the brew day sheet, it looks simple enough. After volume boil - trub loss - cooling loss = your volume into fermenter. If that is the correct way to do it, I have some work to do in my brewery as my efficiency would now be 70%.
I still can't track down Rob & have sent him another email so hopefully he can explain it .
Next brew I'll set up the day for a 20lt batch @70% efficiency & see how that goes.
I know I can crush a tad finer & be more accurate with my cube volume so that's the plan for next brew.
Cheers for everyone's input.
 

chunckious

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jc64 said:
That looks right, my boil off is higher and I lose 1 Liter more to trub. That why my Brewhouse efficiency is 72% rather than 78%. My Brewhouse is less efficient. If I wasn't a idiot I'd post a screenshot of my brewday sheet :)
I also read the the numbers as Liam does and set my Brewhouse Eff to 72.
 

TSMill

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70% brew house efficiency would translate to 80-85% mash efficiency which seems fine to me. If you are happy with your OG, quantity of grain per batch, and most importantly the quality of the end product, why change anything?
 

thedragon

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TSMill said:
If you are happy with your OG, quantity of grain per batch, and most importantly the quality of the end product, why change anything?
TSMill, yours is probably the most sensible comment made in this thread.
 

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