Dry hopping and cold crash

[BrewDaddy]

Curious to know everyone's thoughts on when to time a dry hop and a cold crash.

There seems to be lots of varying thoughts out there, like yeast will strip hop aroma when cold crashed, or that a vegetal flavour can arise from cold dry hopping.

Originally I had planned to dry hop (in primary) 1 week after pitching yeast, then after another week cold crash for a week before bottling (total of 3 weeks in primary, 2 with dry hops).

Thoughts / Opinions??

 

[Yob]

Dry hopping at multiple stages adds various and differing things, Im a big fan of dry hopping in CC, I generally crash for a week and add the dry hops once it's at 2'c

>HERE< on the BN was a recent podcast on this topic

:icon_cheers:

 

[Mardoo]

How about dry hopping after cold crash? Anyone tried that? I've already dry hopped this beer once. Thinking of cold crashing, racking to my bottling bucket and letting the beer rise to bottling temp, then dry hopping in a bag and holding it there for a few days before adding my priming sugar and bottling. Seems like it could be a recipe for oxidation, but I'm not sure. The idea is to get as much hop aroma into the bottle as possible.

 

[IsonAd]

I'm also a fan of dry hopping in cc. Seems to give a brighter hop hit. Aroma also tends to hang around a bit longer. Currently drinking a single hop pale ale that was dry hopped at 18c for 4 days then again at 4c for 5 days. Aroma is much more complex than I expected for the single hop.

 

[Black n Tan]

I tend to dry hop when I reach final gravity, then leave it for 2 days at ferment temps and then cc for three more days before kegging. So 5-6 days dry hopping, half at fermentation temps and half at 0C.

 

[Mardoo]

Thanks folks, I'm definitely going to give dry hopping (which my wife heard as dry humping and now giggles uncontrollably every time I say dry hopping) during cold crash a try. Sounds very interesting.

I'm still curious about the notion of dry hopping after cold crash and raising temps to bottling temperature, but I'll save that for a beer I've put a little less effort into. Cheers guys.

 

[fletcher]

Dry hopping at multiple stages adds various and differing things, Im a big fan of dry hopping in CC, I generally crash for a week and add the dry hops once it's at 2'c

>HERE< on the BN was a recent podcast on this topic

:icon_cheers:

don't you get chunks of hops when you do this? i still did as the hops didn't fall and hit the trub. not annoying, but i was pulling hop debris out of my mouth for a few days after the beer was kegged. i added some at ferment temp after FG was reached and liked it but want to see what the CC hopping is about too. any ideaS?

 

[Mardoo]

I'm using whole flower hops. I got a packet of paint strainer bags at Bunnings, the 20 litre size. They worked AWESOME in the boil and I assume they will in cold crash too - plus they're cheap as and after boiling them in water I couldn't taste any off flavors in the water. They're large enough that there's plenty of room for the hops to float around. I'm putting a couple stainless bits and bobs in that I'll boil together with the bag. That way the bag will stay submerged. You might want to go a large hop sock if you're using pellets.

 

[indica86]

bottling temp

What's that?

 

[Mardoo]

Sorry, I'm being imprecise. I generally bottle at the temp I will bottle-condition the beer at, which I do at 18 degrees. I tend to find that higher bottle conditioning temps lead to less predictable flavors in the finished beer. I have tried using different conditioning temps to see if I can access different flavor profiles from the yeast, but so far I don't like the results, especially on a saison I did not long ago. For now, I'm sticking with 18 degrees. However I have bottle conditioned my kolschs at the highest temp reached during fermentation (15 degrees) and that has worked well. I haven't done many lagers yet but I have bottle-conditioned at the highest temp reached during ferment and that seems to be a general good rule of thumb so far. Except for saisons! :blink:

 

[Gigantorus]

An interesting post this, as this was exactly the query I had. Will try a cold crash dry-hop and see what the results are like.

Thanks all for the comments.

Cheers,

Pete

 

[Bridges]

Would have loved to have seen this presentation by its author but gives an idea of how the US commercial brewers do it.

 

[Morrie]

I have read that dry hopping does not promote any bitterness or IBU's due to no isomerisation of AA's. I have also read other poster's opinion that dry hopping does promote bitterness and some posters even state that there are other compounds in hops beside AA's that promote bitterness.

I'd like to know what those compounds are and why they are not factored into any of the recipe construction programs such as Beersmith to reflect the true bitterness that hops fully promote when dry hopped.

Before anyone says that dry hopping does not throw any or very little bitterness into the brew then try what I have done. Get 0.5 litre of tap water and throw in 2.5 grams of Amarillo, this is a rate of 5g/litre or 115g per 23 litre brew. Taste it every day from day 1 to day 5 and I can say that it is very very bitter. Pour off 100 ml of hop solution and add 100 ml of fresh water so in effect it is only now 57.5 g/23 batch. This is still very bitter. Do the same again and get 28.75g/ 23 batch and this is still a little bitter.

 

[manticle]

It will add bitterness for sure
Actual measurement of IBU is a physical possibility. I believe that other levels of bitter, such as you are experiencing are less quantifiable but no less real.

IBU measurement (most home brewers use estimates rather than actual but the estimation scales come from actual) is a measurement of the amount of isomerised alpha acids in a solution, interpreted in common/standardised units. It's not a measurement of 'bitterness'.

Hop chemistry is pretty complex and I don't pretend to understand it all. Alpha is the contributor to bitter (there's several alpha), some beta will also contribute.

 

[Morrie]

Thanks for your understanding of hop bitterness Manticle. I just wish it could be fully quantified using Beersmith etc, so at the end of the day I could have a reliable number as a reference to work with. Maybe I could count the dry hop into a 2 or 5 minute addition to try and estimate complete overall bitterness (using IBUs as a total of AAs plus other bittering compounds). Seems kind of strange that most brewers regard IBUs as the only sole measurement of bitterness, when as you say and I agree with you that there are other compounds beside AAs that contribute to the overall bitterness result.

 

[manticle]

Thing is : ibu in homebrew terms is an estimate, even when generated by software. We don't measure it - it just can be measured. Not sure if the other bitter compounds can be as easily because there's a few factors at work.
Even if we could use hplc every time we brew, it is still only relevant to our palate and preference so in the end, use that as the primary guide and adapt software and process to suit.

 

[Morrie]

I'm starting to understand this bitterness thing much better now and I now only regard IBUs as a rough guide. I think the best gauge for bitterness is using IBU calcs and your own taste buds to decide how bitter certain hop additions are and adjust future brews accordingly.

 

[RdeVjun]

Spot on Morrie, use your own palate first & foremost.
I've seen folks unnecessarily cut themselves to pieces agonizing over various bitterness methods and hops timings, which is all very well from academic and professional standpoints, but simply not that helpful to novices and amateurs. One of the greatest homebrew attributes is the willingness to give the rough estimate a try and then adapt if it's not up to scratch- experience really is a great teacher, particularly where some variability exists in ingredients.

 

[CheekyPanda]

My understanding of the difference between the bitterness you get from adding to the boil and dry hopping is due to the acids you are extracting. Adding during the boil, you are extracting mainly alpha acids via isomerization (the boiling changes the character of the acid, it takes time so that's why they are added at the start of the boil.) When you dry hop, you are getting the beta acids as they break down via oxygenation. The longer they are exposed to oxygen/dry hopped the more bitterness they will add to your beer.

I could be completely wrong though as I'm no chemist.