Dry Hopping After Ferment Has Commenced?

[Fermented]

Hello!

I made a honey wheat beer yesterday evening after a few too many single malts and a long day and forgot to hop. Recipe was goo + 0.5 kg dry wheat malt + 1 kg honey to 21l; S-05. OG=1052 (I think... was geschnikert and didn't have my specs on). Pitched @ 22C. Currently sitting at 26C (4C over ambient), SFA bubbles but a rather angry looking white krausen.

I had been planning on 15g Hallertau 15 mins before flame out, but managed to forget it.

Is it OK to dry-hop now? If so, how? Open fermenter, toss in 15g and pray? Or steep and toss the lot in? Other? Or forget the hops? I wanted to get a little flavour and aroma happening so that it doesn't end up like an early Beez Neez (original was revolting, but seems a tad better lately).

Looking forward to your suggestions.

Cheers - Fermented.

PS - Yes, am experimenting with ideas, am likely to stuff up, but hey, it's all part of the learning process.

 

[mwd]

Suggestion 1 Wait until the fermentation has slowed right down then dry hop into the primary wait at least a week before bottling.

Suggestion 2 Boil the hops in a pint of water for 15 minutes allow to cool and keep in sealed container then add to the fermenter when the fermentation has slowed right down
Don't know if that is a correct procedure just my simple idea.

1) would give plenty aroma 2) should add some flavour neither would give any bittering.

Don't what temperatures for wheat beers but seems a little high if it is just ale type yeast.

 

[Fermented]

Thanks for the hint.

I reweighed my hops bag and da-dah! 15 g less... :wacko: Looks like I had more to drink than I thought.

So - now it's theoretical. Thankfully.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

If it had been real. To give yourself a result that is more like a 15min addition flavour than a dry hop flavour - you can ultra late hop.

Take your hops and steep them in 250-500ml of boiling water (or preferable some weak wort you made out of DME) for a few minutes - press out the solid portion in a French press coffee plunger. Tip the results straight from the french press into your fermentor when the fermentation is 2/3rds to 3/4s done (or when you see the krausen begin to fall back in) this will give you a lovely strong late hop character. Even more character from your 15g than you would have gotten putting it in the boil. And it tastes like kettle hops not dry hops.

TB

 

[Fermented]

French press? Good idea! But, I don't have one.

Ok - smite me if you will, this is just an idea. How about doing it in a bialetti/moka? Or would that method produce more of a bittering result? Or (probable stupid idea) using an espresso machine (ie hops in group handle, pull a long shot, say 100 ml instead of 30 ml)?

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

No french press... a funnel and a hankie should serve almost as well.

Espresso Machine - WTH.. give it a try and tell us what happens. I like it on pure "Cool as Hell" quotient.

I dare you to drink a shot of it......

TB


PS - actually... there's an espresso machine at work and I can use as many hops as I like. I might see what happens just for giggles.

 

[Fermented]

I don't know about drinking a shot, but if I have another single malt night and am three sheets then I may well give it a go and have the missus video it for a larf.

However, it started out sounding stupid but it's starting to sound better. And no I haven't had a drink. Yet. Needs more research.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[buttersd70]

I like it on pure "Cool as Hell" quotient.

'Cool' doesn't even begin to describe it.....makes me want to deliberately screw a brew just for the opportunity to try it! I can't think of a single reason why it wouldn't work on a flavour basis. I might be half cut at the moment, but this is seriously one of the best sugestions I've read from anyone in the longest time....
Imagine getting a shot for cutting a bad beer in the glass? one tsp per glass of swill, to turn it into a half decent beer? Endless possibilities... :lol:

 

[Fermented]

Did a couple of quick measurements on the espresso machine...

* Temp = 83C
* Output through standard coffee grounds = 10 mls / second
* Guessing about 9 bar with coarse grounds and >12 bar with fine grounds

I think the group handle can only take about 8g of big plugs (like Hallertau/Saaz/EKG). Can probably take more of smaller plugs like Fuggles.

This then begs the question: Like coffee beans, does an excessively long extraction time / volume result in a more bitter shot?

What colour is a good hop tea? Anyone got some pics?

How to measure IBU of the extract?

Methinks this is going to get interesting.

Cheers - Fermented. (Or should that be Fer-mental? )

EDIT: Added measurement question.

 

[Bribie G]

Some serious telepathy going on here. My K&K buddy has come over for the evening and while sitting in the brewhouse supping a Scottish strong ale, I was talking about dry hopping and hop teabags and he suggested, about 4pm QLD time today "how about packing your espresso thingo with hop flowers or pellets and doing an espresso extraction to chuck into a brew?

What a brilliant idea, I said, if it works I'll get a complete sub forum going on the King Method (his surname is King)

I'm in, experimentation to commence.

Bloody amazing

 

[Fermented]

Welly, welly, welly, welly (to quote A Clockwork Orange)...

Looks like we're onto something here.

The wheat honey brew that's on at the moment stops me from trying it for a few days, so looks like this is the next one on the agenda. Maybe do it for an IPA so that if it's too strong it will be OK, or if it's not strong enough then it will be ok for quaffing anyway.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[lastdrinks]

BribieG, i used the plunger method today on a blonde ale that was in the keg and tasted too sweet. 10 grams of cascade boiled for 30 minutes, into the plungerthen staight into keg. Enjoying the extra bitterness right and going for another top up.

 

[BusinessTime]

*bump*

So anyone try the espresso machine attempt ?

I was thinking of doing the french press idea, will this act like an aroma addition ? What if instead of boiling water you boiled some of your fermented wort for 5-10 min with hops ? Would this extract more oils from the hops and be a better alternative to water (assuming that boiling wort doesn't ruin it) ?

 

[Fermented]

I still have that queued for the next brew as I'm waiting for a replacement seal for the filter / group handle.

If it hasn't arrived by next brew time (a few days) then I will be trying it in a moka.

Usually extracting oils / volatiles / acids from plant matter (e.g. essential oil extraction) occurs at the relative evaporation point of the desired end product. Using very high heat and pressure, such as pressure cookers, I think would be not successful as some of the aromatics would be lost in the steam. After all, the pressure cooker temperature is rather a lot more than the boiling point of water.

The French Press method would be much the same as steeping rather than being an aggressive forced extraction.

A moka would be similar to pressure cooking as it's using steam or very hot water under pressure.

The espresso machine would be the best bet because extraction temperature is usually in the 80 - 90C range.

The big question is really: At what temperature does extraction of all the goodies we want from the hops occur?

Still, lots of guesses for now, but it's on the cards.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Swinging Beef]

wont late hop additions overwhelm any honey aromas?

 

[Fermented]

I didn't late hop that one. It came out rather fine and had a slight honey aroma.

When it was young, it had a tartness to it that settled out by around one month. The honey, truthfully, was only slightly noticeable after the first couple of mouthfuls. The nose was definitely there on pouring and while the head remained. It would have been probably better served in nucleated glasses to keep the head around longer. Carbed at about 2.4 vols.

In retrospect, I think it would have been better if the last addition of Hallertauer was halved or reduced 75%.

Cheers - Fermented.

 

[Bribie G]

A couple of years ago I was being investigated for ulcers, had an endoscopy etc. No ulcers or Heliobacter Pyloris, but they suggested laying off coffee (I was just about living on the stuff) and I haven't had any problems since.
Of course I'd recently bought an espresso machine <_<
Now I'm actually no chilling I've decided with my next batch to do as I posted a couple of months back and with my next brew instead of adding the EKG at 20 mins and the styrian goldings at 5 mins, I'll add the EKG at 5 and for the styrians I'll do an espresso shot using pellets, and add it to the fermenter at pitching time.
I might do a mortar and pestle job on the pellets first.

My first brew is a yorkie, It's turned out fairly bitter in a nice way but I'll see if the late and ultra late hopping makes a difference.

Will report further down the track.

 

[crundle]

I am about to embark on my first AG in a weeks time, and was wondering with a method like the french press, should a similar hopping schedule be followed to what would be done if hopping during a boil?

To make myself clear, with a brew like Dr Smurto's Golden Ale, could the wort be made without any hopping at all, and cubed, then when it has been fermenting for a while (eg Krausen drops), then the hops could be added to boiling water as per the normal hopping schedule, such as at 60 minutes, 15 and 5 for example, then the resulting hop water be added to the fermenting brew?

I am keen to make the Golden Ale as my first AG brew, but as I will be cubing, I don't want the extra bitterness, and am unsure of how to adjust for the bittering and loss of hop aroma that seems to accompany cubing.

If this method is possible, what sort of volume of water should I be aiming at using to extract the most from my hops? I am aware that I would have to adjust for the resulting effects on gravity, but I am looking at making a 20 litre finished brew and starting with around 31 litres so I can always add more water after.

cheers,

Crundle

 

[buttersd70]

I am keen to make the Golden Ale as my first AG brew, but as I will be cubing, I don't want the extra bitterness, and am unsure of how to adjust for the bittering and loss of hop aroma that seems to accompany cubing.

I wouldn't bother faffing about with it....I'm notorious for disliking heavily bittered beers....this isn't one, even when NC.

 

[brettprevans]

with out opening a debate on no-chill. the resulting extra bitterness from no-chill is minimal and I challange most people to notice the differance.