Dry Hop Or Flamout?

[Sammus]

Howdy, I've started to think flameout additions are fairly pointless. Every time I do them, it smells great in the fermenter, then there's no aroma left once it's fermented.

Can you just replace flameout with dry hop (post fermentation of course).

Is there anything flamout does that dry hop doesnt?

 

[BoilerBoy]

Can you just replace flameout with dry hop (post fermentation of course).

Is there anything flamout does that dry hop doesnt?

Some hops can give a really grassy flavour with dry hopping that works fine with say English Bitters or APA's, but doesn't work well at all in lagers or pilsners where any kind of rough or raw flavours really mess with the palate.

I have found that flame out additions don't tend to do this (at least as much) but it really depends on what style your trying to brew, for a lager/pilsner I wouldn't dry hop.

Cheers,
BB

 

[newguy]

I dry hop semi-often. If you throw them into the fermenter within 7-10 days of bottling/kegging, that seems to be best (I've found anyway). I've only thrown in hops at flameout a few times and I don't like the results either.

Dry hopping isn't the be all, end all either. The hop aroma will be very strong initially but it will fade over time. It won't ever decrease to zero, but don't be disappointed about the fade.

And not to contradict BB, but I've dry hopped pilsners before and it works really well as long as you use appropriate hops.

The only pain in the butt with dry hopping is the hops floating freely in the fermenter. I've had liquid out poppets on my kegs get jammed open (what fun that was) and I've also completely jammed the dip tube with hop residue. If you can find a good sized tea ball with a fine mesh, use that.

 

[warrenlw63]

Howdy, I've started to think flameout additions are fairly pointless. Every time I do them, it smells great in the fermenter, then there's no aroma left once it's fermented.

Can you just replace flameout with dry hop (post fermentation of course).

Is there anything flamout does that dry hop doesnt?

Sammus have you ever considered bumping up your 15 min from flameout addition and adding nothing after this? You might be pleasantly surprised.

Warren -

 

[reviled]

Do you no chill? Cos that may explain it...

If youre not, try cooling quicker! My mate uses a whirlpool immersion chiller and gets the temp from boiling down to 50ish within a couple of minutes, and allthough the hop aroma does fade, it definately makes a difference for a good month at least, probably more!

But I nochill, so I generally up my dry hopping to combat the lack of hop aroma, and I wouldnt have any reserves dry hopping a Pils either...

 

[t2000kw]

Sammus have you ever considered bumping up your 15 min from flameout addition and adding nothing after this? You might be pleasantly surprised.

I typically have three hop additions, depending on the style. One addition at 60 minutes, one at 15-20 minutes, and one at 2 minutes. The first is for bittering, the second is supposed to add to the flavor without adding much bittering (it does add a little bittering), the third is for aroma. I think the 2 minute addition would be similar to your flame-out addition since it's not in there very long. When I turn off the heat, I immediately begin chilling the wort. If you add your hops at flame-out and wait 10 or so minutes before beginning to cool the wort (like Palmer discusses in the link below), I think you'll get about the same results as with the flavoring hops. The shorter time the hops are in hot wort, the more aroma that will be retained. I believe aroma is driven off first, then the volatile oils for flavoring. After that (longer immersion times in the hot or boiling wort), bittering becomes the prominent contribution from the hops.

I've never tried a hop-back, since I use an immersion chiller, but that's supposed to be another way to get flavor without bittering. I've also never tried dry hopping, but I might soon. I grow my own hops and would like to try adding my home-made hop plugs in a secondary. I'm a bit anxious, though, about the hops clogging up the neck of the carboy, though, when I try to clean it out.

Some information about hop additions can be found here:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter5-1.html

Donald

 

[captaincleanoff]

wow, what an informative post :lol:

 

[newguy]

I grow my own hops and would like to try adding my home-made hop plugs in a secondary. I'm a bit anxious, though, about the hops clogging up the neck of the carboy, though, when I try to clean it out.

Don't worry about the hops clogging the carboy. I've dry hopped using whole hops in a carboy and there is 0 risk of them clogging it up as long as the fermentation has passed the high krausen phase. They wash out afterward very easily. They will clog up a sink or bathtub, so dispose of them on the lawn somewhere.

You can also try FWH with your homegrown hops. That way they stay mainly in the kettle and still give a good flavour & aroma without the worry of infection or clogging when trying to bottle/keg/rack.

 

[Bribie G]

Funny I read the post just now, I'm off to get a coffee plunger for hopping purposes. I've been adding hop tea a few days before bottling. It seems to work great with certain hops such as Cascade, BSaaz etc and I only use flowers. Making a good hot hop tea and leaving it for half an hour then pouring in is like a shot of Uber-hoppy extract and it really hits you when bottling. I have been using a glass teapot ex- op shop but it was annoying when the flowers blocked the spout so plunger should be perfect solution.

To me the advantage is you are doing an extract of the aroma and much of the flavour at a stage when the fermentation is not going to gas off a lot of the aromatics, and you don't end up with green vegetation in the brew.

I'm still experimenting with different hops, I treated a rather bland partial with 2 Hallertau plugs in the teapot and for the first week it tasted like lawn mowings, but has mellowed out heaps in the last fortnight. On the other hand I've found that when using BSaaz it out-Creatures Little Creatures. :icon_cheers: EKG doesn't seem to offer much of a boost, strangely.

 

[hazard]

I've been adding hop tea a few days before bottling. It seems to work great with certain hops such as Cascade, BSaaz etc and I only use flowers. Making a good hot hop tea and leaving it for half an hour then pouring in is like a shot of Uber-hoppy extract and it really hits you when bottling. I have been using a glass teapot ex- op shop but it was annoying when the flowers blocked the spout so plunger should be perfect solution.

So how much hops are you using? I've read in BYO that this method is very effective and you need much less (say 1/3) of the hops compared to late additions. How do you calculate your usage?

 

[Bribie G]

So how much hops are you using? I've read in BYO that this method is very effective and you need much less (say 1/3) of the hops compared to late additions. How do you calculate your usage?

I've been winging it here, and usually just add whatever a typical flameout addition would be, say 15 or 20g depending. However I see the point in cutting back a bit, because the hops can be really noticeable when the beer is fairly young although they seem to mellow out after a while. Now I'm settling down into a regular 'house lager' Aussie standard lager which only has a bittering addition, I might try just a very small addition, say 10g of BSaaz or Green Bullet with the next brew and see what difference that makes.

 

[reviled]

I've been winging it here, and usually just add whatever a typical flameout addition would be, say 15 or 20g depending. However I see the point in cutting back a bit, because the hops can be really noticeable when the beer is fairly young although they seem to mellow out after a while. Now I'm settling down into a regular 'house lager' Aussie standard lager which only has a bittering addition, I might try just a very small addition, say 10g of BSaaz or Green Bullet with the next brew and see what difference that makes.

You should try 50gms Bribie and see what that does :icon_cheers:

 

[Sammus]

warren: I usually do 15min additions,and decided to change it to 10 because I wait 5min after the boil for whirlpooling purposes. I've done flameout a lot, but the only time I got any decent hop aroma is with a 60g dry hop with centennial.

 

[drsmurto]

warren: I usually do 15min additions,and decided to change it to 10 because I wait 5min after the boil for whirlpooling purposes. I've done flameout a lot, but the only time I got any decent hop aroma is with a 60g dry hop with centennial.

It took 60g of centennial dry hopped for you to smell anything? :unsure:

I suspect the problem is a blockage in your nasal passage somewhere rather than a brewing technique....... h34r:

 

[devo]

I have dry hopped in the past from time to time but at can find the results a bit grassy. I do get good results with a late 10 min addition and flame out addition so I'm a bit miffed as to how you can consider the practice pointless.

 

[BoilerBoy]

It took 60g of centennial dry hopped for you to smell anything? :unsure:

I suspect the problem is a blockage in your nasal passage somewhere rather than a brewing technique....... h34r:

A case for 'Nasal Delivery" technology maybe" :lol: h34r:

BB

 

[Sammus]

:lol: I'm sure I would've detected it with much less, but that was the first recipe that really gave me some good hop aroma, it just so happens it have a shitload of good hop aroma

 

[warrenlw63]

I guess it's a point of how much aroma you're looking for. Everybody has a differing expectation of it. I know these days I'm more than happy with my regular beers having the late hopping stopped at 15 mins and I still get enough aromatics. (caveat: I no chill). If it's something like an English Bitter I'll just toss a plug or two in the keg and dry hop it.

Even with the dry hops it's not necessarily aroma I'm looking for more than a particular character you gain from the process... ie; those lovely hoppy burps. :icon_drunk:

That's why these arguments almost become baseless... Because we're all looking for something different.

Warren -

 

[Bribie G]

you know when you crack a bottle of Pilsner Urquell or even Bavaria and within 3 seconds the hop atoms are up your nose and you get that intense hit? Now that's what I call hop aroma, and back in the UK I used to love P.U. for that very reason because you don't get anything like that with UK real ales, although they are hoppy in a different way. US hops do that thing as well, for example on cracking a LCPA. Like Warren says we are all looking for different things. My favourite brews at the moment are my SMASH-SHA beers with only 20g of hops 90 minutes and the hops are almost freaky considering such low rates and long boil.

I'll make you drink a couple in June, Reviled :chug:

 

[RobB]

Is the 'hop tea' method used at the same stage that dry hopping would be, or would you get better results adding it just before bottling?