Dextrose Question

[wombatty]

Hello again,
Question for a beginner, I am currently doing my first brew, a coopers mexican cerveza. In another section i read comments that someone had used 1 kg of brew enhancer as i have but had also used an extra 500g of dextrose. What does this do? and how will the end result differ between the two? flavor or alcohol % ?

cheers

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I'd rather a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy!

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[samhighley]

It'll mostly add more alcohol, and will slightly change the flavour.

 

[samhighley]

Coopers recommend BE2 for that kit, which is composed of roughly thirds of dextrose, maltodextrin and light dry malt.

 

[wombatty]

Coopers recommend BE2 for that kit, which is composed of roughly thirds of dextrose, maltodextrin and light dry malt.

cheers mate, i used the BE2. so all should be sweet

 

[flattop]

Coincidence!!!
It's my first brew in 10 years and i chose the same Cerveza and dex mix.
How did you go with FG? I can't get mine under 1.012 and i am on my 10th day, the FG hasn't changed for a few days now.
I will bottle on the 13th-14th day regardless, decided not to rack and i added finings today (too late as the fermentation seems over).
How are you going for FG? I had problems when i pitched this brew as the yeast sat on the head of the wort for 3 days without activating.
When i added the cold water to the wort i think it got too foamy and the bubbles just never went down.
Anyhow i had to stir the yeast in and activation started but it was weak and the FG stabilized at about half the desired point.
I ended up pitching again 7 days after the initial pitch and the fermentation started again and the FG dropped a few more points.

I also put an ESB Barvarian kit on yesterday and it's purring away, it's a 3kilo kit with no dex required, i activated the yeast in tepid water 30 minutes before pitching.

Let me know how your FG is on this brew....

 

[Pennywise]

If all you are using is the kit & brew enhancer (Coopers 1 or 2) I doubt you'll notice any diff in flavour, it will make the brew stonger ABV wise. I honeslty wouldn't bother with those enhancer kits you can make them up youself cheaper. Coopers BE1 has 750g dex and 250g maltodextrine, BE2 has 500g dex, 250 maltodextrine & 250g LDME.

 

[wombatty]

Coincidence!!!
It's my first brew in 10 years and i chose the same Cerveza and dex mix.
How did you go with FG? I can't get mine under 1.012 and i am on my 10th day, the FG hasn't changed for a few days now.
I will bottle on the 13th-14th day regardless, decided not to rack and i added finings today (too late as the fermentation seems over).
How are you going for FG? I had problems when i pitched this brew as the yeast sat on the head of the wort for 3 days without activating.
When i added the cold water to the wort i think it got too foamy and the bubbles just never went down.
Anyhow i had to stir the yeast in and activation started but it was weak and the FG stabilized at about half the desired point.
I ended up pitching again 7 days after the initial pitch and the fermentation started again and the FG dropped a few more points.

I also put an ESB Barvarian kit on yesterday and it's purring away, it's a 3kilo kit with no dex required, i activated the yeast in tepid water 30 minutes before pitching.

Let me know how your FG is on this brew....

I will let you know when i get to the final stages of fermentation, it's only been 3 or so days now, am planning to leave for another 10 days or so

 

[Bribie G]

If you are looking for something around 5% alc by volume try 750 of dex and 750 of light dried malt extract and forget the maltodex. Despite its name, maltodextrin has no connection with malt whatsoever and is made from potatoes, rice or whatever. The extra light dried malt extract will give you the extra body and head that maltodex only thinks it can

When I got back into brewing after a long absence I also had good results adding a hop teabag as well. Craftbrewer also sell the same hops (in pellet form) that Corona uses and they are a quick, easy and useful boost to the recipe.

 

[wombatty]

No worries, will look into the pellets for sure.

 

[flattop]

THe ESB kit had hops inside the tin i saw them as i was pouring the LME into the fermenter, btw i drew a SG reading off both today and the taste of the ESB was good even at 1.030sg and with a few grainy green floaties, the cerveza not so great. Then again the ESB was double the price but an all in one tin, just add water and yeast.

 

[travkv]

I bottled a coopers mexican cerveza/ BE2 with 20g hallertau pellets(10 min boil) a couple of weeks ago. Left in primary for 2 and a half weeks and the fg was 1012. So i reckon u should be right. just make sure it is constant fo 2/3 days before bottling.
Hopin' this would be ready for cup day but probably pushing it.

Anyways hope they turn out well guys :beer:

 

[Tony]

Hi Wonbatty.

I used to work in a factory that made Dextrose and malto dextrin (its actually called fieldose 30) I will give you a basic run down of the process.

They are both made from wheat but can be made from most starch sources.
The wheat is ground to flour, the starch and protein are seperated. The starch is treated with enzyme to convert the starch to sugars. Dextrose is completly converted to sugar, placed in large tanks and chilled to crystalise it and then spun out in a centrifuge, dried and bagged. thats it!

The maltodextrin is basicly a partialy converted starch. There are a lot of different grades of this stuff and the stuff used for brewing is the most converted of all of them. I cant remember the amount of conversion... sorry. Its the partial conversion that makes it only partly fermentable, hence it adding body and suposedly ....head retention. It gets pumped as a liquid into a chamber with bloody hot air passing through, dries instantly and falls to the bottom like snow. its then scraped out and bagged. This process is called spray drying.

:icon_offtopic: you should have tried working on this spray drier. you became a human toffee in no time to the point your tools would stick to your hands and you couldnt put them down. It was in the highest point of the factory where it was hottest so you sweated and the dust stuck to you. We called it the penthouse! Great fun

As for what they do for your beer........

Dextrose is added with kits to build the gravity and make alcahol without adding body or flavour at all. Adding more will only add alcahol, not flavour or body. ITs 100% fermentable so it leaves nothing behind. In my experience, Kits are designed with a malt profile that when watered down to the correct volume, will account for this and give the best ballance for what the manufacturer intended. Adding more alcahol wont hurt but can throw the ballance of the beer.

Maltodextrin is esentially the same but only partly fermentable, thus adding more body to the beer. Personally i would say forget the maltodextrin and use some malt extract instead. It really has no place in beer and is just a cheap quick fix used by people and "enhancer" manufactures.

I used to use a 50/50 mix of Dextrose/light dry malt extract. Worked really well and the malt wont leave that fake sweet slickness of unfermented glucose like the maltodextrin did for me.

I can tell you they the big boys use a low gravity thin glucose thats well converted, not maltodextrins in the brewing process. Well..... we only made the glucose for the brewing mobs. It was basicly liquid dextrose that went out in semi tanker loads.

hope this helps

cheers

 

[buttersd70]

If all you are using is the kit & brew enhancer (Coopers 1 or 2) I doubt you'll notice any diff in flavour, it will make the brew stonger ABV wise. I honeslty wouldn't bother with those enhancer kits you can make them up youself cheaper. Coopers BE1 has 750g dex and 250g maltodextrine, BE2 has 500g dex, 250 maltodextrine & 250g LDME.

I always thought that BE1 was 600g dex 400g maltodex? I got that of a long debated thread either on grumpys or on oliver and geoffs. Which would make sense, cos it ends at higher fg than BE2 (at least back when I used it, way back when, be1 brews generally ended up about 2 points higher than be2)?

 

[flattop]

I agree with the malt and dex comments from Tony, from what i saw and tasted of the sample cerv it lacked body and was a little watery, of course i don't recommend tasting your FG samples but i am following this brew carefully as i want to improve on it. I have drawn off one bottle tonight and put it away for early sampling, the rest of the brew will be stored a month (if i don't run outta beer first).

How did you balance the pallets "ahbeer..."? Didn't it make the brew too bitter?

 

[Pennywise]

I always thought that BE1 was 600g dex 400g maltodex? I got that of a long debated thread either on grumpys or on oliver and geoffs. Which would make sense, cos it ends at higher fg than BE2 (at least back when I used it, way back when, be1 brews generally ended up about 2 points higher than be2)?

I dunno then mate, never used them myself so can't comment on my eperience from them, the figures I quoted I read several time on O&G's, 400g of maltodextrine seems like a fair wack though. Isn't that getting into soapy territory? Will have to have a look on coopers site to see if they state what is actually in them

edit: just had a look and not go, flicked em' an e-mail so we'll see if they wanna tell h34r:

 

[Pennywise]

I always thought that BE1 was 600g dex 400g maltodex? I got that of a long debated thread either on grumpys or on oliver and geoffs. Which would make sense, cos it ends at higher fg than BE2 (at least back when I used it, way back when, be1 brews generally ended up about 2 points higher than be2)?

Well, you are righ buttersd70, they just e-mailed me back and it is indeed a 60/40 mix. Still seems like a fair slog of maltodextrine though :unsure: . When I started brewing I used to use it and every brew I put more than 300g in to had a real soapy feel to it.

 

[Pollux]

I agree with the malt and dex comments from Tony, from what i saw and tasted of the sample cerv it lacked body and was a little watery, of course i don't recommend tasting your FG samples but i am following this brew carefully as i want to improve on it. I have drawn off one bottle tonight and put it away for early sampling, the rest of the brew will be stored a month (if i don't run outta beer first).

How did you balance the pallets "ahbeer..."? Didn't it make the brew too bitter?

I do have to disagree there, I think you should always taste your SG samples and smell them, note the colour, cloudiness, this information can be used for later batches, and also to gauge how a beer is progressing....

For example, I sampled an SG of a spiced cerveza that I currently have in primary, and based upon that tasting I made a choice to not do a secondary ferment on honey as the spice flavours were at a perfect level and would have been overpowered by the honey.....

But this thread has inspired me to ditch BE1 and BE2, from now on I will be using either all LDME or a 50:50 blend of LDME and dex.....

 

[buttersd70]

Well, you are righ buttersd70, they just e-mailed me back and it is indeed a 60/40 mix. Still seems like a fair slog of maltodextrine though :unsure: . When I started brewing I used to use it and every brew I put more than 300g in to had a real soapy feel to it.

Cheers for that. As I said, it wasn't my numbers I was going off there, I got them from another forum ages ago....but I feel better now, cos I've been telling other people 60/40 for years, and hated the thought that I'd been misleading newbies. :huh:
I stopped using these packs ages ago, early in my brewing, and started mixing my own blends, but going back through my logs, I found that tin+pack to 23, be1 consistantly hit 1012 and be2 consistantly hit 1010. No indication in the tasting notes of soapiness, but back then I probably wouldn't have picked it up, anyway. Notes for my first ever beer with coopers draught and BE1 say "best beer I have ever tasted" :lol:

 

[debineko]

Hi Wonbatty.

I used to work in a factory that made Dextrose and malto dextrin (its actually called fieldose 30) I will give you a basic run down of the process...



Thanks, Tony. That explanation certainly takes the mystery out of those products, and has me thinking twice about using malto dextrin.

Only problem is that after seeing "dried malt additive" in so many kit recipes I went out and bought 3 kgs of the magical stuff. But not only am I now shying away from using it in kit recipes, I'm also in the process of moving towards extract and then AG, so I really have no use for the stuff.

Anyway, my question is: Can you use malto dextrin to prime, bulk or otherwise, because while dextrose, LDME etc are commonly mentioned, I don't recall anyone suggesting using malto dextrin to prime with. There must be strong reasons against using it, just wondering what they might be. Something to do with its unfermentablity and that fake sweet slickness, no?

And if by any chance you can get away with using malto dextrin to prime, what amount would you use, relative to say dextrose?

Thanks,
David

 

[buttersd70]

Its mainly down to its unfermentability. I can't recall just how fermentable it is, specifically, (it does ferment to a degree) but for practicle purposes its generally considered 'unfermentable', and most programmes (that I know of) that calculate projected og's and fg's from an ingredients list appear to consider it at least 98% unfermentable. The brewcraft calculator for example, if you add enough maltodextrin (and nothing else) to give 1.040 OG, it predicts FG would be 1.038. So four fifths of sfa.