manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
^ Hope no-one read my post as being pro 'no medication'.
Depression........Its real
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Tony
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available for Kindle
http://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Trap-Struggling-Living-ebook/dp/B00C0X6K6S/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369912729&sr=1-2&keywords=the+happiness+trap
Will get!
Thanks Triple B
http://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Trap-Struggling-Living-ebook/dp/B00C0X6K6S/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369912729&sr=1-2&keywords=the+happiness+trap
Will get!
Thanks Triple B
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Bada Bing Brewery
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Onya Tony.
Cheers mate
BBB
Cheers mate
BBB
Bada Bing Brewery
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Manticlemanticle said:
Special K is the go short term .... I want some!!! There is all sorts of stuff going on, special K, TMS and NSAIDS. People don't like to talk about ECT but the **** works for very severe depression - why? who knows (I have a MA in neuropsychology, we don't know but can guess).
That all being said, meds are great for balancing you out - it's what happens after you are balanced out that is important. Nothing changes if nothing changes (Dr Phil might quote that now) ......
Cheers
BBB
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
I'm very familiar with the effects of various meds and more importantly, the effect of their absence and I am a supporter of the right meds at the right dose with the right support. I'm also a fan of diet, exercise and appropriate psychotherapy as a means of maintaining healthy mental health. None of these need to be, nor should be exclusive.
I'm familiar also (won't say how) with the breakfast cereal and its alternative versions. ECT is a weird one. I know cases where it works well and others where it's the worst **** on earth. Usually compared to rebooting a computer - have you tried turning it off then on again?"
Anyway, I'm reading two books at once so it will take a while to get through "Blaming the brain" by Eliot Valenstein (someone asked earlier what the book was and I forgot to reply). Meds help, meds are important but they are not the sole solution. Neither is fish oil or going to the gym but all can help, case dependent.
Definitely wouldn't want to be seen as a 'no meds' proponent though - have seen (and grieved) for the effects on some close to me.
I'm familiar also (won't say how) with the breakfast cereal and its alternative versions. ECT is a weird one. I know cases where it works well and others where it's the worst **** on earth. Usually compared to rebooting a computer - have you tried turning it off then on again?"
Anyway, I'm reading two books at once so it will take a while to get through "Blaming the brain" by Eliot Valenstein (someone asked earlier what the book was and I forgot to reply). Meds help, meds are important but they are not the sole solution. Neither is fish oil or going to the gym but all can help, case dependent.
Definitely wouldn't want to be seen as a 'no meds' proponent though - have seen (and grieved) for the effects on some close to me.
Ducatiboy stu
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I think that a holistic approach is mostly the best.
The meds help get you out of the hole knowing you to want to partake in exercise and a more appropriate diet along with socialising and talking about it
I first saw a psychologist who said diet was important. Foods high in Triptopane are good for the brain as it is basically converted into seratonin by the body. Dark chocolate with 70% cocoa and walnuts/pecan nuts ( thank you god ..my two favs ) are some of the best. He went in to say that most depression sufferers loose their sense of taste and that can leadd to poor diet.Made sense to me.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan
The meds help get you out of the hole knowing you to want to partake in exercise and a more appropriate diet along with socialising and talking about it
I first saw a psychologist who said diet was important. Foods high in Triptopane are good for the brain as it is basically converted into seratonin by the body. Dark chocolate with 70% cocoa and walnuts/pecan nuts ( thank you god ..my two favs ) are some of the best. He went in to say that most depression sufferers loose their sense of taste and that can leadd to poor diet.Made sense to me.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan
technobabble66
Meat Popsicle
Amazing thread. I'm truly impressed with the open, honest & deeply personal comments by many forum members here.
I don't *think* i suffer from serious depression, though i did go through a rather dark period in my mid 20's (who knows? maybe i do suffer after all). However most of my mum's side suffer from it. All my male relatives in 2 generations were alcoholics; and in hindsight, suffered from depression (my mum is still paranoid about me trying homebrewing!). I think i just have a bit of an innate ability to see the negative in everything :unsure: so these days i'm consciously working on seeing the brighter side of life, staying active, etc.
I'm a professional naturopath (specialising in Nutritional & Herbal therapies), so i occasionally work with patients who also suffer from depression & anxiety.
I'd repeat Ducatiboy Stu's comments, & others, that a holistic approach definitely helps. And everybody's different. Hence, what they experience and what works best to moderate the symptoms varies a lot.
Admitting to yourself that you suffer from depression is the hardest, and most important step.
(Deciding to do something about it can be the next hardest).
Pharmaceuticals are not always needed, but are generally a great first step to help level out the emotions &/or raise someone out of the black shroud they're in. Most people commenting on their personal experience here seem to be referring to moderate to strong depression - so the pharmaceuticals are generally essential.
So once someone gets to a slightly more milder level of depression, the other holistic stuff can have a greater impact.
I should say: Talking to someone is possibly the most important. I believe that includes both a professional (keep hunting until you find the one right for you, same for a GP) and friends/family - partly just to realise that there are many people out there suffering like yourself, and that you can tap into any support network around you.
Diet makes a massive difference - in terms of improving nutrition to the nervous system, levelling out energy fluctuations, increasing intake of some specific nutrients (eg: tryptophan, DHA (an omega-3 fatty acid), etc), and resolving any gut problems (eg: IBS, allergies, malabsorption, etc).
Exercise is also generally fantastic - the problem being motivation, of course.
Sunlight can actually make a significant difference - it stimulates serotonin production.
Avoiding stimulants can also be important. Unfortunately that includes booze. Caffeine/coffee too. Sometimes complete abstinence is best, but commonly just moderation is required - eg: couple of drinks on a saturday night is fine, just monitor how you go on the following day, etc.
Re: Caffeine is accumulative. Galbrew is correct in that the liver will clear it out gradually (dependant on what else the liver is detoxifying).However, I would suggest that there is still a long term accumulated effect on the physiology that can be unbalancing on both energy levels & hormone profiles. It also definitely aggravates any issues with anxiety. Given many people with depression also have problems with anxiety, this is a significant problem. Hence, the need to moderate or eliminate caffeine. Probably treat it the same as booze, really.
I hope everyone is ok with me writing mainly about my professional knowledge rather than personal experience with depression, given the best thing about this thread has been everyone expressing their own personal experience with depression. I just thought while some comments on possible holistic treatments were being thrown around, i'd put in my 2c worth.
Obviously, everyone has their own beliefs & experience with what works best for them. Definitely, the holistic approaches can help a lot, but i'd strongly stress the importance of seeing a professional health practitioner initially - it can be hard to gauge the severity of your depression & anxiety (& hence certain treatments [drugs & psych therapy] that may be necessary) when you've lived with it for years.
Stu
I don't *think* i suffer from serious depression, though i did go through a rather dark period in my mid 20's (who knows? maybe i do suffer after all). However most of my mum's side suffer from it. All my male relatives in 2 generations were alcoholics; and in hindsight, suffered from depression (my mum is still paranoid about me trying homebrewing!). I think i just have a bit of an innate ability to see the negative in everything :unsure: so these days i'm consciously working on seeing the brighter side of life, staying active, etc.
I'm a professional naturopath (specialising in Nutritional & Herbal therapies), so i occasionally work with patients who also suffer from depression & anxiety.
I'd repeat Ducatiboy Stu's comments, & others, that a holistic approach definitely helps. And everybody's different. Hence, what they experience and what works best to moderate the symptoms varies a lot.
Admitting to yourself that you suffer from depression is the hardest, and most important step.
(Deciding to do something about it can be the next hardest).
Pharmaceuticals are not always needed, but are generally a great first step to help level out the emotions &/or raise someone out of the black shroud they're in. Most people commenting on their personal experience here seem to be referring to moderate to strong depression - so the pharmaceuticals are generally essential.
So once someone gets to a slightly more milder level of depression, the other holistic stuff can have a greater impact.
I should say: Talking to someone is possibly the most important. I believe that includes both a professional (keep hunting until you find the one right for you, same for a GP) and friends/family - partly just to realise that there are many people out there suffering like yourself, and that you can tap into any support network around you.
Diet makes a massive difference - in terms of improving nutrition to the nervous system, levelling out energy fluctuations, increasing intake of some specific nutrients (eg: tryptophan, DHA (an omega-3 fatty acid), etc), and resolving any gut problems (eg: IBS, allergies, malabsorption, etc).
Exercise is also generally fantastic - the problem being motivation, of course.
Sunlight can actually make a significant difference - it stimulates serotonin production.
Avoiding stimulants can also be important. Unfortunately that includes booze. Caffeine/coffee too. Sometimes complete abstinence is best, but commonly just moderation is required - eg: couple of drinks on a saturday night is fine, just monitor how you go on the following day, etc.
Re: Caffeine is accumulative. Galbrew is correct in that the liver will clear it out gradually (dependant on what else the liver is detoxifying).However, I would suggest that there is still a long term accumulated effect on the physiology that can be unbalancing on both energy levels & hormone profiles. It also definitely aggravates any issues with anxiety. Given many people with depression also have problems with anxiety, this is a significant problem. Hence, the need to moderate or eliminate caffeine. Probably treat it the same as booze, really.
I hope everyone is ok with me writing mainly about my professional knowledge rather than personal experience with depression, given the best thing about this thread has been everyone expressing their own personal experience with depression. I just thought while some comments on possible holistic treatments were being thrown around, i'd put in my 2c worth.
Obviously, everyone has their own beliefs & experience with what works best for them. Definitely, the holistic approaches can help a lot, but i'd strongly stress the importance of seeing a professional health practitioner initially - it can be hard to gauge the severity of your depression & anxiety (& hence certain treatments [drugs & psych therapy] that may be necessary) when you've lived with it for years.
Stu
Econwatson
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Sorry to divert the topic a little, but how are you guys with anxiety? I think this is my vice more than anything else. I get down like most people and I don't think it's depression, but I feel like I'm really wound up all the time.
Let me give you an example, I've been asked to be my brother's best man, which is a fantastic honour and I'm so happy that he'd choose me. But to me, it feels almost like a sentence because I know I'm going to have to give a speech in front of 200+ people, some of whom I know, but some of whom I do not. Now, until the wedding next summer, I'm going to have the thought in the back of my head that I'm going to have to do it, and it's really going to ruin the occasion for me.
What it makes me feel above everything else is nausea. I forget to breathe or breathe shallowly and this makes me feel sick so that I need to retch, which forces me to breathe again as an instinctive reaction. But then the cycle will begin again. I have this reaction to all sorts of occasions, job interviews, girlfriend is pissed off, the future in general. I can control it so that nobody sees, but only just. I had an interview with BP for an amazing job and up until 30 seconds before I was called in to be interviewed I was retching in the bathroom. I got the job and I start in September, but I don't think I can keep it up forever, I can't be constantly worrying about some future event.
It wasn't always this way. When I was a child I used to perform Doric (a Scottish dialect) poetry in front of hundreds of people, and I just didn't give a ****. I remember feeling adrenaline and excitement, but not nausea like I do now. I wish I could go back to that feeling.
I think when I start working I'll go and see a psychiatrist about it. I would prefer not to be put on medication or anything similar. I've heard that hypnotherapy, as kooky as it sounds, is useful for treating it. I'll really try anything.
It's good to be able to speak to you guys about it. I've touched on the subject with my friends. I think my brother has a similar condition to mine, but being Scottish, we tend not to discuss our emotions too openly, to all our detriment. I think my girlfriend knows, but maybe she finds it hard to understand because she seems to find presentations so natural.
Anyway, thanks for reading. My girlfriend is away and the Glenfiddich (is that a naughty word on these forums) is flowing, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.
Let me give you an example, I've been asked to be my brother's best man, which is a fantastic honour and I'm so happy that he'd choose me. But to me, it feels almost like a sentence because I know I'm going to have to give a speech in front of 200+ people, some of whom I know, but some of whom I do not. Now, until the wedding next summer, I'm going to have the thought in the back of my head that I'm going to have to do it, and it's really going to ruin the occasion for me.
What it makes me feel above everything else is nausea. I forget to breathe or breathe shallowly and this makes me feel sick so that I need to retch, which forces me to breathe again as an instinctive reaction. But then the cycle will begin again. I have this reaction to all sorts of occasions, job interviews, girlfriend is pissed off, the future in general. I can control it so that nobody sees, but only just. I had an interview with BP for an amazing job and up until 30 seconds before I was called in to be interviewed I was retching in the bathroom. I got the job and I start in September, but I don't think I can keep it up forever, I can't be constantly worrying about some future event.
It wasn't always this way. When I was a child I used to perform Doric (a Scottish dialect) poetry in front of hundreds of people, and I just didn't give a ****. I remember feeling adrenaline and excitement, but not nausea like I do now. I wish I could go back to that feeling.
I think when I start working I'll go and see a psychiatrist about it. I would prefer not to be put on medication or anything similar. I've heard that hypnotherapy, as kooky as it sounds, is useful for treating it. I'll really try anything.
It's good to be able to speak to you guys about it. I've touched on the subject with my friends. I think my brother has a similar condition to mine, but being Scottish, we tend not to discuss our emotions too openly, to all our detriment. I think my girlfriend knows, but maybe she finds it hard to understand because she seems to find presentations so natural.
Anyway, thanks for reading. My girlfriend is away and the Glenfiddich (is that a naughty word on these forums) is flowing, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.
philmud
Well-Known Member
Econwatson, I know Beyond Blue have a campaign at the moment to raise awareness re: anxiety - it's a pretty crippling affliction. I think a degree of situational anxiety (public speaking, interviews) is normal, but it sounds like its debilitating for you sometimes. Would you consider trying to see someone ahead of September? If you see your GP you should be able to get a mental health plan which entitles you to a Medicare rebate for (up to) 8 sessions with a psychologist & seriously reduces the expense. If you're not working ATM some psychologists may take you on for no gap. Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (the other CBT) seems to be a very popular treatment for anxiety & involves relaxation techniques & ways to become more aware of and disarm your anxiety.
Good luck!
Good luck!
brettprevans
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Econ. U dont need a shrink. A psychologist will be enough. Go to the gp and talk to them as the first step. Ask for avreferal to a psych who practices CBT. Not all of them do. The beyond blue website also lists gps who specialise in depression etc so have a look around tge site.
Public speaking is one of the most common fears in rhe world. However something mau be exacerbating yours atm.
Public speaking is one of the most common fears in rhe world. However something mau be exacerbating yours atm.
Econwatson
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Thanks for the suggestions guys, I had not heard of this CBT before. I'll be sure to check it out. Good to see anxiety is receiving some coverage at the moment, seen a few of the ads. Would like to get something done about it while I'm in Australia. I'm on Medicare even though I'm a Pom, hopefully I can still be seen 
Bada Bing Brewery
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Econwatson - good advice above. See your GP and tell them what is going on. Get an organic workup (blood tests etc) to make sure there is nothing going on and get a referral. You may find that your anxiety is far more pervasive than you recognize, that's why getting the diagnosis right is important (and nearly impossible over the internet).
Try the MoodGYM website for some info and practical stuff on CBT. It is not a substitute and you really should see your GP. CBT is certainly not the be all and end all, it was exciting 20 yrs ago but in the real world Mindfulness **** is the go...........
As I said earlier in the thread - pay the 20 bucks or so and get the Happiness trap, worth the read.
Cheers
BBB
Try the MoodGYM website for some info and practical stuff on CBT. It is not a substitute and you really should see your GP. CBT is certainly not the be all and end all, it was exciting 20 yrs ago but in the real world Mindfulness **** is the go...........
As I said earlier in the thread - pay the 20 bucks or so and get the Happiness trap, worth the read.
Cheers
BBB
Econwatson
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I'm taking a look at the MoodGym site now, it looks very useful, many thanks!
It would be good to get a blood test to make sure everything is physically alright as well!
It would be good to get a blood test to make sure everything is physically alright as well!
Ducatiboy stu
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Well.. my new meds are starting to work.
The in-between period was .....welll......
I am starting to feel alive again. I am waking up and feeling like i want to do something. After not feeling like that it is a new experiance.
But......I still have to deal with the decissions i made ......this part is not easy.
The in-between period was .....welll......
I am starting to feel alive again. I am waking up and feeling like i want to do something. After not feeling like that it is a new experiance.
But......I still have to deal with the decissions i made ......this part is not easy.
brettprevans
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whats the diff btwhttp://www.bookdepository.com/Happiness-Trap-1-Set-Dr-Russ-Harris/9781459609839 and http://www.bookdepository.com/Happiness-Trap-Dr-Russ-Harris/9781845298258? Obviously the former is a newer edition but is there anything more worth the extra $?Bada Bing Brewery said:
Bada Bing Brewery
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Good question. I've only read the bigger version (link one). I'd say link two is a condensed version and I'd probably grab that one....... And its cheap !!!!
Cheers
BBB
Cheers
BBB
citymorgue2 said:
Ducatiboy stu
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ordered my copy today
Bada Bing Brewery
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Can't wait for your review Stu .......
Cheers
BBB
Cheers
BBB
Ducatiboy stu said:
