Decoction Mashing

[ford-ute]

Hi guy i have not done an AG yet but after reading i thought i would work on a system with the equipment i have availible and with kowledge i have on hand im not to sure about this process or the times ive mentioned, so could the more experiance brewers in here have a read and give me some refining for my Idea

Decoction Mashing Process ​

1. Add 3-5liters water to 1 kg of grain at temp to get a strike temp of 35 to 40 degrees C



2. Add grain rest for 20 min called the "Protein rest" (beta glucans act at this temp)



4. Remove required water and boil to get the next strike temp of 50 degrees C then add back to mash rest for 20 min (Enzyme activation rest including starch dissolving( beta- amylase, peptidolytic and proteolytic become active Alpha-amylase also becomes active but not most affective)



5. Remove required water and boil to get the next strike temp of 65 degrees C then add back to mash called "Conversion temperature" rest for 10 min (favors rapid Alpha-amylase activity but is to hot for other enzymes even beta- amylase takes a decline)



6. Remove required water and boil to get the next strike temp of 75 degrees C then add back to mash called the "Mash off" rest for 5 min (this serves to extract the last parts of malt from the grain and use the last surviving Alpha-amylase however enzyme activity soon stops also by raising the temp it make the mash less viscous and aids in lautering)



7. Sparge and lautern the wort into the fermentor



8. Remove 10 liters of sweet water from the fermentor to the boil pot and boil you hops according to recipe quantities and time frames



9. Add back to fermentor and you know where to go from here







Note: By removing sweet water and boiling it and then adding it back the top of the mash you are helping clear the sweet water in the same way the HERMS or RIMS system do. The benefits I see with this process is that it can be done in an Esky style infusion masher and that at most you only need to boil 10 to 12 liters of water at a time (except for the first stage but at that temp you could just get it from the hot water tap of you house) so you can do it with a relatively small pot with out having to go out and by a 50 liter pot of hundreds of dollars so it would be good for the beginner. Also something to mention is that it is a full volume mash process although you do not boil your hops in full volume and also that I have not mentioned any cooling of any kind which needs to be mentioned

 

[drsmurto]

I wouldnt recommend a decoction for your first AG.

Thats masochist behaviour.

Comments on your comments.

2. this is an acid rest.
4 and 5. a decoction is boiling the malt, not just water. You draw out the malt with just enough water to prevent it form sticking to the pot and burining.
6. The mash out decoction is just the liquid so this is right.

You boil ALL the liquid once oyu have sparged, not just 10L.

 

[ford-ute]

thankyou for your help i guess im not actually trying a try decotions mash what it really is is an infussion mash with temperature steps

You boil ALL the liquid once oyu have sparged, not just 10L

because i dont have a pot big enough to boil the hole volume i was just going to boil just 10 liters of sweet water and boil the same amount of hops as if i was going to boil the whole volume and then add this really bitter wort to the rest of the of my extracted malt.

does the times for my rests seem alright?

 

[Screwtop]

As Smurto said this would be Mashochistic :lol:

The amount drawn off for decoctions can be thick (mostly grist) or thin (mostly wort) for different purposes. Generally a thick pull is brought to a sacc rest temp for 20 min then boiled for 20 min before returning to the mash to raise the temp to the next mash step temp, to finish off and raise the temp of the mash to mash-out a thin pull is just boiled and then added back to raise the mash temp to 76C for the mash out step. Decoction (thick pull) is basically gaining some conversion from the grist (20 min at sacc temp) and then producing some melanoidin characters by boiling, the amount of the pull added back to the mash is determined by the amount of liquid required to be added to the remaining mash volume to raise the temp to the next rest temp. Exactly the same as working out how much boiling water is required to add to a normal mash to reach the next rest temp. The first or thick pull is designed to give some melanoidin character and raise the temp (thick pull) and the next is designed just to raise the temp to the next step temp (thin pull). Anyway - from experience the result gives a result (where required by the style) that is barely worth the work for a new brewer, maybe brewing for a competition or tweaking something like a doppelbock to get the absolute best result would be worth the extra time and work. Otherwise, just use some melanoidin malt in the grainbill.

First AG - make a single infusion APA no mash out step, batch sparge. You'll love the result and want to make more beers, try the more difficult stuff later on in your brewing.

But hey, you wanna do a decoction first up - go for it

Cheers,


Screwy

 

[Goofinder]

because i dont have a pot big enough to boil the hole volume i was just going to boil just 10 liters of sweet water and boil the same amount of hops as if i was going to boil the whole volume and then add this really bitter wort to the rest of the of my extracted malt.

You need to boil it ALL to sanitise the wort. Grain is full of bugs that will turn your wort sour and ferment it. Trust me, I left some aside in PET to boil up for starters on my last brew but didn't get around to it. Came back the next day and one sprayed everywhere when I opened it!

 

[ford-ute]

Thanks screwy i have never ever done thing the eazy way why should this be any different but as i age i have been trying to learn by others experience and mistakes so i will certianly consider yours and Drsmurtos advice

having said that the process just doesnt seem that difficult to me yes more complicated than a single infusion but still not that hard

maybe brewing for a competition or tweaking something like a doppelbock to get the absolute best result would be worth the extra time and work

isnt this what we are trying to achive the best beer possible if the result are better why not brew this way always so i guess the question is,

Is the result that much better?

 

[samhighley]

Do something easier for your first AG.

It'll take you a while to work out your setup with relation to things like required infusion temperatures, mash tun thermals etc.

Other things like how you plan on measuring additions to the mash tun, whether your mash tun thermometer is appropriately sited, whether your manifold works without getting stuck sparges etc, are all things that are best sorted with a single temperature mash.

Good luck with the first AG. It's a wild ride!

 

[hockadays]

like Sammy suggeted something to consider is how you will work out how much thick wort to boil to hit the target mash temps on a system that you haven't tested for temp loss etc. Promash will give you some guidence but the decotions I have done on my system on which I have brewed on many times still need a little manual tweeking to get the temps right. Decotions are good fun but your best off making a single temp infusion APA as others have suggested for your first go. Maybe trying adding a single decotion for the mash out if your that keen.

good luck

 

[boingk]

[surfie voice] Whoa man...sounds intense. Gnarly, but seriously intense. [/surfie voice]

I'm considering doing a really simple Aussie Pale for my first, nothing crazy, nothing with more than one step. Probably 95% JW Pale with 5% Wheat, bittered to 30IBU with beloved PoR. Maybe 20-ish percent light Munich and some late Saaz, but that'd be as 'complex' as it gets.

Go simple, go with what you want, but mainly just go for it.

Cheers - boingk

 

[ford-ute]

Cheers guys

i guess i was only thinking of the process in theory not the practical application you are deffinetly right i do not know if my sparge with get stuck and what temp drops i will get i have calculator but i guess the will not be 100% accurate if im loosing to much temp through my tun walls

so maybe i do have quite a few issues to work out before i head dow this path

 

[drsmurto]

If you fill in your location details there will be people willing to show you how a decoction is done.

I watched a decoction being done before i attempted one myself.

 

[ford-ute]

cheers for that DrSmuurto i have updated my details, I would be interested in seeing it done or even just an all grain so may be we will see what happens

 

[peas_and_corn]

Before doing a decoction, watch They are incredibly helpful (I'll be doing my first decoction this weekend, woot!)