Cold crash query

[Brewnicorn]

Hey brewers,

I wanted to pose a question. In the last few brews I've done I've used a secondary vessel to siphon the beer off and chill down to clear up the beer. Which it's done very well. What I've noticed in the last two however (pale ales, both) is that they've got a bit of a harsh nose. Good flavour but the nose is kind of stale beery smell? One randomly was a bit over carbonated also but same issue with smell.

My cold crash formula is to use the existing household fridge and whilst it doesn't get down to 0, it's easily plugging away at under 5c degrees. Could this have any responsibility for the smell?

My fermenters are new and kept well. Temp control is rudimentary but a styrofoam cell kept at ambient 19 with a 2L bottle frozen every 9 or so hours switched out. Using safale yeasts, smurto's partial grain recipes and that means boils for each brew. Keen to put a cause down as best I can. Happy to take some questions if any punters want to throw me a bone and help.

Cheers all
Sam

 

[mtb]

Oxidisation probably. Consider running a test batch where you don't siphon into a secondary vessel and crash chill as your normally would, and see if there's actually any difference in clarity. I doubt there will be.

 

[Brewnicorn]

Yeah I think that's possibly it. Prior to me trying the cold crash and secondary vessels I had none of it. It had to be one of those two. That's a shame about oxidisation. I'm usually pretty careful.

 

[Coxy]

I generally rack to a secondary vessel as well. To avoid oxidisation, I try to make sure of two things.
1. I'm still expecting it to drop another 3-5 gravity points. This means that oxygen in the headspace will mostly be purged from the positive pressure co2. Most brewing technique books I've looked at advise this. If my brew has hit my expected FG it stays in the original vessel.
2. When siphoning, try to minimise splash. As I run from a tap at the bottom of the fermenter, I also need to ensure that i reach full siphon so that there is no air in the lines.

 

[mtb]

No matter how careful you are, if you rack beer @ final gravity into a fermenter full of air, oxidisation is inevitable to some degree. That's the general consensus of my Dr Google / AHB research anyway.

If you have concerns about clarity, just chuck in a lil' gelatin. Does wonders.

ed: added gelatin hyperlink

 

[Gregos]

Why rack to a secondary?Are we talking here about finishing fermenting in secondary fermenter or are we talking about transferring fully fermented beer to another vessel for flocculating and clarification?
​I don't bother I just dry hop and cold crash for a week or more, beers always very clear,the risk of oxidization is always there if you rack to secondary.

 

[mtb]

Are we talking here about finishing fermenting in secondary fermenter or are we talking about transferring fully fermented beer to another vessel for flocculating and clarification?

If you're going to plagiarise from another forum site, at least paste with plain text so it's not so noticable!

ed: or better yet, credit your source.

 

[rude]

Why rack to a secondary?Are we talking here about finishing fermenting in secondary fermenter or are we talking about transferring fully fermented beer to another vessel for flocculating and clarification?
​I don't bother I just dry hop and cold crash for a week or more, beers always very clear,the risk of oxidization is always there if you rack to secondary.

Im the same just ferment in primary for 2 weeks then cc for 2 days to a week depending on the type of yeast & time

Talking ales here I have a slow turn around time 2 weeks ferment 1 week cc 4 weeks in the keg works for me ???

Dry hopping would put hops in at certain time & pull out when desired but havent done much of it so no expert

Very time poor so pressure fermenting is my latest venture

 

[Rocker1986]

No secondaries here either, ales ferment out in about 5-6 days, get cold crashed after 9 days and kegged a week later. They're always clear but I do use isinglass and Polyclar during the cold crash. Never seen the point of transferring to a secondary unless in the instance of wanting to lager the beer for extended periods, but I keg anyway so in effect the keg becomes the secondary and the beers lager in there.

 

[Brewnicorn]

My use of secondary is usually to do with bulk priming, because I bottle the beer.
What might a solution to bulk prime in the primary look like? Dosing each bottle isn't out of the question, I just think the bulk method suits the appeal of an even take up of sugar and carbonation.
Thoughts?

 

[Rocker1986]

Ok, I did use a second fermenter to transfer for bulk priming but it was never used for cold crashing or whatever to improve clarity. It worked fine and I couldn't pick up on any off flavours from oxidation, but I smoked back then too so that probably didn't help the senses :lol:

 

[mtb]

My use of secondary is usually to do with bulk priming, because I bottle the beer.
What might a solution to bulk prime in the primary look like? Dosing each bottle isn't out of the question, I just think the bulk method suits the appeal of an even take up of sugar and carbonation.
Thoughts?

Carbonation drops are your friend

 

[Brewnicorn]

That's the other part I like with bulk priming is the lack of sediment resulting from the dosing in each bottle. Carb drops I've tried too.
Bit of a theme emerging eh! I'm a sook for cloudy beer.

 

[mtb]

I don't see how dosing would affect clarity any more than bulk priming. In either scenario you're simply adding fully fermentable sugar to your beer.
FWIW I get perfect clarity from my bottles but I fine with gelatin in the FV before bottling and I leave the FV un-agitated for at least 24h at CC temps before bottling.

 

[Brewnicorn]

I don't see how dosing would affect clarity any more than bulk priming. In either scenario you're simply adding fully fermentable sugar to your beer.
FWIW I get perfect clarity from my bottles but I fine with gelatin in the FV before bottling and I leave the FV un-agitated for at least 24h at CC temps before bottling.

You don't think? It's only what I've observed but I think there's a heavier presence in a bottle you dose than a bulk dissolved Dex dose. I could just be me being too impatient to see it all dissolve before I neck it... :-/

 

[mtb]

I should backpedal a little on my earlier statement - you may well be seeing improved clarity when you bulk prime, but only because you're also racking into a secondary. Doing so limits the amount of sediment finding its way into your bottles, but you are also oxidising your beer. One step forward, two steps back.

My $0.02 - stop using a secondary vessel, gelatin in the primary, dose your bottles, and it'll be happy days.

 

[Brewnicorn]

Thanks mtb

 

[mtb]

No problem, I'll be keen to know if it solves the issue.

 

[Brewnicorn]

Here's my dilemma. I have a partial grain stout I've had down for a week and a half in the fermenter. Fermentation is finished and I have the option of cold crashing which I'll likely do. The stout isn't a typical 'clear' beer of course but I've been reading tonight lots of people still use gelatin in stout.
For me, I like a pale but generally the clearer the better so I'm tempted to give it a run.
As a practice walk through, what comes first, initial cold crash, then add gelatin, leave to complete cold crash for a week or so and bottle. OR add gelatin, cold crash then bottle...

 

[manticle]

Contrary to popular opinion, racking to separate vessel should not be causing major issues unless you're doing it wrong.

Yes it's a risk but not a guarantee.