Cling Wrap Lid Sanitary? No-chill In Fermenter?

[dent]

I have done about 130 brews chilling in the fermenter overnight - summertime outside with a pedestal fan pointed at it. I mostly do lagers. My technique was to simply put a bottle cap over the airlock bung to allow air but not bugs to get in as it cooled, and, inevitably, sucked air in. Infections just didn't happen. And, yes, success in state level comps did down the track with the same technique.

I have since moved to chilling, but there was nothing wrong with the old technique - I changed over to get more control over the hop flavour/aroma and cold break. But as far as the beer goes, this was only an incremental improvement.

I mainly post to provide the experience I have had. I think the problem is that anyone can succeed with a variety of techniques so it is easy to say "My way is the best way!!", but really they all work to one degree or another.

At the time the no-chilling made it very easy to make that many more brews and gain experience than I might have had otherwise.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Again, this is about caution, care and playing the odds. percentage brewing if you like.

Can no-chilling in your fermenter work?? Sure it can. But there are potential issues with it. no need to describe them, that's ben done dozens and dozens of times.

Can no-chilling in you kettle work? Sure it can. But there are potential issue with it. Once again, detailed dozens of times in past threads for those who care to look.

Will those issues raise their heads? If they do will they spoil you beer or just make it a little less good than it might have been? Or are they just the fevered imaginings of people bent on stifling diversity in brewing? Maybe... Possibly.... Probably.... Probably not.

All those anwers are correct to some degree. People obviously brew using these methods and make them work to their satisfaction. But that doesn't remove the potential for the issues to occur.

With regard to No-Chill though.... There is no need to find out. Someone did all the thinking for you, worked out all the possible pitfalls and disadvantages - and came up with a technique that avoids them all. And that technique has become the "standard" no-chill method as described in the wickki.

No-Chill in the fermenter ---- Probably fine
No-Chill in the kettle --------- Probably OK
No-Chill by the "Standard" method --- you know it will be OK

For the minuscule amount of extra effort required to turn "Probable" into "Definite" I know which path I'm taking and which path I'll always recommend to others.

Oh, btw.... I always sanitize the cling wrap I put on my fermenter. It's probably alright without doing it - but with a 2 second squirt of sanitiser I get to remove the word probably from the equation entirely. Playing the percentages.

Percentage brewing.... That's how you will make great beer. Take just a little time and effort to dot i's and cross t's on the little stuff, then you can concentrate on the big stuff without worrying where your shortcuts might bring you undone.

Thirsty

 

[MeLoveBeer]

Kudos Thirsty... awesome post

 

[hazard]

Again, this is about caution, care and playing the odds. percentage brewing if you like.

Can no-chilling in your fermenter work?? Sure it can. But there are potential issues with it. no need to describe them, that's ben done dozens and dozens of times.

Can no-chilling in you kettle work? Sure it can. But there are potential issue with it. Once again, detailed dozens of times in past threads for those who care to look.

Will those issues raise their heads? If they do will they spoil you beer or just make it a little less good than it might have been? Or are they just the fevered imaginings of people bent on stifling diversity in brewing? Maybe... Possibly.... Probably.... Probably not.

All those anwers are correct to some degree. People obviously brew using these methods and make them work to their satisfaction. But that doesn't remove the potential for the issues to occur.

With regard to No-Chill though.... There is no need to find out. Someone did all the thinking for you, worked out all the possible pitfalls and disadvantages - and came up with a technique that avoids them all. And that technique has become the "standard" no-chill method as described in the wickki.

No-Chill in the fermenter ---- Probably fine
No-Chill in the kettle --------- Probably OK
No-Chill by the "Standard" method --- you know it will be OK

For the minuscule amount of extra effort required to turn "Probable" into "Definite" I know which path I'm taking and which path I'll always recommend to others.

Oh, btw.... I always sanitize the cling wrap I put on my fermenter. It's probably alright without doing it - but with a 2 second squirt of sanitiser I get to remove the word probably from the equation entirely. Playing the percentages.

Percentage brewing.... That's how you will make great beer. Take just a little time and effort to dot i's and cross t's on the little stuff, then you can concentrate on the big stuff without worrying where your shortcuts might bring you undone.

Thirsty

This all makes sense, but there is also a convenience factor. I brew in the kitchen, I've got an immersion chiller and usually use it,, but sometimes my wife needs to use the kitchen and doesn't want to be tripping over hoses and other brewing equipment - so I have kettle chilled a few times, and with no problems. As soon as the boil is finished, whack the lid on the kettle (42 litre stockpot) and lots of alu foil around the lid to keep anything out. Wort will stay hot for a LONG time, ensuring that lid gets sanitised. That said, I try to avoid kettle chill if there any late hop additions.

 

[Fents]

i also go the other way and say i have been no chilling in my fermenters and it works fine for me - but i pitch my yeast THE NEXT day, never leave it sitting round like i would in a cube.

also a recent convert to cling wrap and find its heaps easier.

 

[QldKev]

thanks for the responses haha, ill no chill in the cube, then transfer whilst aerating, then cling wrap lid (no need to sanatise)

Thats exactly what I do, obviously when transferring it is into a sanitised fermentor.


QldKev

 

[AndrewQLD]

Cleaned up off topic posts, can you keep the personal attacks between yourselves and in private please.

AndrewQld

 

[dent]

No-Chill by the "Standard" method --- you know it will be OK

I feel it necessary to point out that sanitisation for your fermenter when chilling has to be a lot more comprehensive than it does when you're moving near boiling wort in there. When it is hot you know even in any little scratches or whatever that whatever was in there is pretty much dead.

Since I started chilling I actually use now a plate of steel with a hole cut in it the size of my fermenter opening - I put this over the kettle for ten minutes of the boil with the fermenter on there upside down after cleaning, with the tap open, and let the steam get the thing really hot. My little IR thermometer says it gets to 92 degrees or so at the top after a while of this. I run it through with iodophor or whatever afterwards as well for good measure.

 

[t2000kw]

My main concern would be if your fermenter had a spigot on it. They are notorious for being the source of hard to trace infections. Sanitizing the fermenter doesn't really sanitize the spigot. Taking the spigot apart can help, but sometimes it causes leaks (I tried it and it did for me). I now use a fermenter (plastic) with no spigot, and a separate bottling bucket. By the time the beer goes through the spigotit has enough alcohol in it that it is naturally bacteriostatic or antibacterial (depending on the microbes). I still sanitize it, of course.

The plastic should be fine, as others have said. Technically, it may harbor some microbes, but I'll bet in the manufacturing process that it's close to sterile since it's made for food preparation. I would use an elastic band around the top to hold it in place.

The other concern some had (and I do also) is whether you want the hops in contact with the wort during the entire cool-down period. If you use pellet hops, they will be in contact with the wort. If you use whole or plug hops, you can screen them out or use a fruit bag used in winemaking (it has lots of volume compared to a hop sock to allow better utilization) to contain them then remove them.

From what I've read here, many brewers who use the no chill method brew with the expectation that the hops will be in the wort during cool down.

Let us know how well it goes, please?

Donald

Two quick questions before my brew tomz,

1. Is cling wrap sanitary and okay to use without the use of a sanitiser as a fermenter lid?

and in relation to this,

2. Is it okay to no-chill in the fermenter as i will pitch the yeast as soon as it gets down to temp? And if so will a cling wrap lid be okay with boiling wort underneath it?

Cheers Clint

 

[hazard]

i also go the other way and say i have been no chilling in my fermenters and it works fine for me - but i pitch my yeast THE NEXT day, never leave it sitting round like i would in a cube.

also a recent convert to cling wrap and find its heaps easier.

So do you transfer boiling wort into your fermenter? How do you transfer - do you get burnt lips from sucking a siphon tube?? Or do you have a tap on your kettle?

How does the fermenter withstand the heat? Particularly the tap, I've heard that they can pop out when the fermenter gets soft.

 

[leiothrix]

i also go the other way and say i have been no chilling in my fermenters and it works fine for me - but i pitch my yeast THE NEXT day, never leave it sitting round like i would in a cube.

I do the same thing often enough. The only two caveats that I've found with this are:
1. The airlock needs to be refilled a couple of times. It initially all gets blown out by the steam, then gets sucked back in as it cools
2. It can slightly wreck the taps, as in make them slowly leak.

As long as I know the yeast is going in as soon as the wort is cool, it's all good. And it saves having to clean up a cube.

Rob.

 

[manticle]

How does the fermenter withstand the heat? Particularly the tap, I've heard that they can pop out when the fermenter gets soft.

I put boiling water in my fermenter all the time (I don't no chill in it) and it withstands the heat no worries. Somethimes the thread softens up a little but is fine again when it cools.

 

[hoohaaman]

Again, this is about caution, care and playing the odds. percentage brewing if you like.

Can no-chilling in your fermenter work?? Sure it can. But there are potential issues with it. no need to describe them, that's ben done dozens and dozens of times.

Can no-chilling in you kettle work? Sure it can. But there are potential issue with it. Once again, detailed dozens of times in past threads for those who care to look.

Will those issues raise their heads? If they do will they spoil you beer or just make it a little less good than it might have been? Or are they just the fevered imaginings of people bent on stifling diversity in brewing? Maybe... Possibly.... Probably.... Probably not.

All those anwers are correct to some degree. People obviously brew using these methods and make them work to their satisfaction. But that doesn't remove the potential for the issues to occur.

With regard to No-Chill though.... There is no need to find out. Someone did all the thinking for you, worked out all the possible pitfalls and disadvantages - and came up with a technique that avoids them all. And that technique has become the "standard" no-chill method as described in the wickki.

No-Chill in the fermenter ---- Probably fine
No-Chill in the kettle --------- Probably OK
No-Chill by the "Standard" method --- you know it will be OK

For the minuscule amount of extra effort required to turn "Probable" into "Definite" I know which path I'm taking and which path I'll always recommend to others.

Oh, btw.... I always sanitize the cling wrap I put on my fermenter. It's probably alright without doing it - but with a 2 second squirt of sanitiser I get to remove the word probably from the equation entirely. Playing the percentages.

Percentage brewing.... That's how you will make great beer. Take just a little time and effort to dot i's and cross t's on the little stuff, then you can concentrate on the big stuff without worrying where your shortcuts might bring you undone.

Thirsty

Fantastic post,also disarms two brewers doing one thing, three thousand different ways.Aka squabbling.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I feel it necessary to point out that sanitisation for your fermenter when chilling has to be a lot more comprehensive than it does when you're moving near boiling wort in there. When it is hot you know even in any little scratches or whatever that whatever was in there is pretty much dead.

Since I started chilling I actually use now a plate of steel with a hole cut in it the size of my fermenter opening - I put this over the kettle for ten minutes of the boil with the fermenter on there upside down after cleaning, with the tap open, and let the steam get the thing really hot. My little IR thermometer says it gets to 92 degrees or so at the top after a while of this. I run it through with iodophor or whatever afterwards as well for good measure.

Fair point I guess... But for me it's still an indication of a shortcut that "might" come back to bite you if you decide to rely on it. I have never, ever and never will, put wort into any container - cube, fermenter or other, that had not been sanitized to the absolute best of my ability. If I wasn't 100% sure the fermenter was able to be properly sanitized for use with cooled wort....then it wouldn't see a brew in my brewery. Anything heat may or may not do is considered a bonus

You seem on board with that level of care anyway... Your sanitation routine makes mine look a little slack.

 

[Fents]

So do you transfer boiling wort into your fermenter? How do you transfer - do you get burnt lips from sucking a siphon tube?? Or do you have a tap on your kettle?

How does the fermenter withstand the heat? Particularly the tap, I've heard that they can pop out when the fermenter gets soft.

transfer with a tap on my kettle, putting your lips anywhere near 100c wort is just silly.


fermenter holds up fine, i would go as far to say that they feel less flimsy when picked up than a hot cube full of wort. taps never popped off on me, only tap problem i have is when i leave it open!

 

[Fents]

I do the same thing often enough. The only two caveats that I've found with this are:
1. The airlock needs to be refilled a couple of times. It initially all gets blown out by the steam, then gets sucked back in as it cools
2. It can slightly wreck the taps, as in make them slowly leak.

As long as I know the yeast is going in as soon as the wort is cool, it's all good. And it saves having to clean up a cube.

Rob.

1. instead of using an airlock grab a sanitised shot glass, turn it upside down and just place it over the grommet.
2. but a new tap, mine never leak no chill or chill.

 

[earle]

On the topic of leaking taps. I take mine apart after every brew and found that they started to get slow leaks. Got some paraliq lubricating grease from one of the sonsors, a tiny smear of this and no more leaks.

 

[kevin_smevin]

I was going to say that Nick was a twat for derailing the thread but I changed my mind by being slightly on topic for the sake of the OPs question. I no chill in my fermenters with no problems what so ever. As a side note, you also dont need to aerate your wort if using dried yeast, just leave to cool over night, take the lid off in the morning, sprinkle your yeast and seal. I cant answer your question about cling wrap as I dont use it as a lid but I do use it over the top of the airlock with a lacky band with no troubles.
Cheers
Steve

Why dont you need to aerate wort if using dry yeast? Surely the dried yeast still need oxygen to synthesise cell walls etc needed for budding and growth?

 

[leiothrix]

1. instead of using an airlock grab a sanitised shot glass, turn it upside down and just place it over the grommet.
2. but a new tap, mine never leak no chill or chill.

The shot glass is a good idea, I might try that.

For #2, I replace the taps every so often (say every few months). I don't pull them apart for cleaning either. I think the heat just distorts them a bit. Or maybe I just grabbed a bad batch.

Rob.