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tonydav

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I've got 3 brews which stopped at 1.020 and subsequently don't seem to be clearing in the keg. I was experimenting with starters and reproducing yeasts and used the yeast from a Coopers Sparkling Ale (I'm new to liquid yeasts and didn't want to experiment on and stuff up a $15 liquid yeast).

The Sparkling Ale went well until it hit 1.020 and then stopped. Likewise with the other two brews. Both of these had very large starters and were roaring along very quickly. I suspect it got too cold as the brews were at 15-16 degrees at completion.

They all taste good, but they don't seem to be clearing much.

Questions:

* Any ideas why they would have stopped at 1.020. They should have gone much lower by my calcs. First brew was a standard Coopers Sparkling Ale mix (as per the directions - from memory 1.5kg LME, 0.5kg DME, 0.25kg dextrose), second brew was 2 x Wheat kit made up to 23L, last brew was 2 x Tooheys Lager kit, 1 x Coopers BE1, 1 x Brew Enhancer 2, 0.5kg dextrose.

I'm thinking the temperature but maybe the type of yeast?

* Suggestions on how to clear them in the keg. I don't have one of the you beaut filter setups some of the guys here have (and to be honest to date my beers normally clear very well).

tony
 

sosman

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tonydav said:
* Suggestions on how to clear them in the keg. I don't have one of the you beaut filter setups some of the guys here have (and to be honest to date my beers normally clear very well).
[post="60584"][/post]​
I have used gelatin just before kegging. I am sure there are others who routinely put gelatine directly into the keg (maybe also cutting a cm or so off dip tube).
 

GMK

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u could add some Gelatine - one of teh SA brewers does this.

Note that u will have to cut or bend up the bottom of the dip tube as it will settle.
From memory it is between a teaspoon and a tablespoon....
But ask Chiller - he is the expert on this....

Hope this helps.
 

pint of lager

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Stuck ferments are the pits. After spending all that money, time and effort it is disappointing to see your beer stall.

You may have answered your question, with the temperature drop. If the yeast is flocculant, it will have settled out and stopped working. Solution is to raise the temperature to the correct fermenting temperature and gently, with as little splashing as possible, rouse the yeast by stirring with a sanitised spoon, or with the lid on, sloshing the fermenter. This is the very first thing you should do when you suspect a stuck ferment. This also helps remove some of the dissolved CO2 in the brew which is also a culprit for the yeast shutting down.

Your recipes have a lot of fermentables and non fermentables in them, much more than the standard kit and kilo. Usually, a standard 23 litre batch with 1 kit tin and 1 kg of additive finishes around 1.010-1.012. Some of yours are double this, and I would expect them to finish much higher, around 1.020. Did you record starting gravities? Have you done these recipes before? How do the readings from these batches compare to earlier ones? Big beers need big starters, 1 litre of active starter may not have been enough. Maybe someone who has done the Coopers sparkling ale may post their finishing gravity.

Since you have already kegged your beers, rousing is not open to you, unless you want to gently place back in the fermneter and pitch a pack of yeast.

To clear your beers in the kegs, you can either leave it in the fridge for two weeks, which should drop most of the sediment out, or use some gelatin in the keg. Either way, you may get the first few schooners pour cloudy, after that they should be clear.

Next time the beers stop fermenting early, have a read of some of the earlier threads that cover this topic.

Poor attenuation and poor flocculation are signs of mutant yeast, assuming everything else about the brewing process is ok.

Your beers may taste sweet. To address this, you may want to dose the kegs with isohops. Pour out 250ml beer, keep adding a drop at a time to the glass, stir gently and taste. When you reach the right amount, dose the rest of the keg accordingly, working from the amount of drops per 250ml.
 

warrenlw63

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If you're using yeast from bottles of Coopers SA make sure you build it up to quite healthy levels. In other words step it up about twice for a normal sized (23 litre batch). Pitch your dregs from the bottle into about 300ml of starter, leave it about 3 days then step it up to about a litre after that.

However it sounds like you've done something similar?

I've found from past experience this yeast will finish a little slowly, that said lower temps generally don't effect it too much. Bear in mind if your beer's cloudy as you say it is it's still got more than enough suspended yeast to finish the business.

If you have the means just warm your fermenters up towards the end of fermentation.

The yeast won't settle all that quickly too. In the past if that's happened to me I just keg anyway. Leave it in the keg for about 4 weeks and it should clear of its own accord. Usually the first pint or so is cloudy but it's plain sailing from there.

If you want to use gelatine, put a sachet into a pot of either cold water or if you're paranoid about infections some boiled, then cooled water. Heat up the gelatine carefully until it just dissolves. Don't let them boil or they're basically useless.

Then just add it to your keg when you rack and store the beer cold for a few days. Once again any effects of the gelatine will go in the first pint or so.

Warren -
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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That Sparkling Ale would have had a OG well above 1050, the stuck ferment could be due to a temperature drop, I wonder if it is also due to inadequate aeration? ANy beer over OG 1050 I always re-aerate early in the morning of the day ater brewday, no stuck ferment or off tastes.

Jovial Monk
 

tonydav

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I think the SA was fairly close to 1.060. Hard to tell as my brilliantly designed Hydrometer only goes up to 1.040 so I have to guess above this :(

If I want to put the gelatine in the beer should I be leaving it at the 2 degrees or so it's at at the moment? Do you need to stir it?

I think I'll give it a go with one of the kegs and if I'm happy try it on the other three.

tony
 

warrenlw63

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Tony,

Store it at 2-3c, would probably help to mix it in with the beer. Add it after you've racked and just carefully/gently stir it in with your racking hose.

Warren -
 

chiller

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warrenlw63 said:
Tony,

Store it at 2-3c, would probably help to mix it in with the beer. Add it after you've racked and just carefully/gently stir it in with your racking hose.

Warren -
[post="60879"][/post]​
This is for Ales -- real brewers only make Ales :)

Let the brew finish to final gravity. [5 or so days]

Mix 2.5 heaped teaspoons of gelatin in 3/4 cup warm water.

Pour into the bottom of the keg.

Rack your beer onto the gelatin.

Seal -- gas and leave for a couple of days.

Tip --- remove 20mm from the bottom of your dip tube and very quickly the beer will be sparkling bright and the envy of all your mates :)


Mythbusted ------ Gelatin doesn't strip the flavour from your beer and doesn't add any taste to the beer.

Steve
 

tonydav

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Steve & Warren, so in my situation (where the kegs are already chilled and gassed) should I just gently poor it into the keg (which already is full of beer) and gently stir it. And I should then leave a few days?

tony
 

warrenlw63

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Tony,

If you've already gassed the keg, personally I wouldn't do anything. Being recultured CSA yeast the beer should clear itself in a few weeks. If its a persistent haze all the gelatine in the world isn't going to help it.

If you want to fine I'd suggest slowly bleeding all the pressure off the keg (gradually), opening it up and adding the gelatine.

My own opinion of gelatine is that it's a roll of the dice and doesn't "always" do the job its supposed to do. OTOH you've probably got nothing to lose.

Warren -
 

Kai

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pint of lager said:
Stuck ferments are the pits

Yes.

(I have nothing to add)
 

Batz

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If pour gelatine into your keg full of chilled beer it will not work.
The gelatine sets as soon as it hits the cold brew and falls too the bottom of the keg , you get a few globby bits , I speak here from past experience.


Batz
 

tonydav

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From the gist of your comments Warren I should just leave it and wait for the beer to clear. Sounds like the go.

The main batch has started to clear and is quite tasty but a little sweet. I'm more worried about the wheat beer (2 x 1.7kg Brewiser Wheat). It's a lot sweeter - I'll have to investigate the isohops option I think. FWIW this seems like a good kit for a two can brew. It isn't very heavily hopped and hence is pretty good in a double can. I used a coles draught and that was incredibly bitter (admittedly only made up to 18L vs 23L for this one).

tony
 

warrenlw63

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Tony,

Sorry I forgot to add as Batz said, when you degas your keg over time you should warm your beer up to about 10c otherwise your gelatine will basically turn into Aeroplane jelly too quickly.

You've more or less answered your own question. Beer could be sweet because it's lowly-hopped. Two cans of extract with no extra hops, particularly wheat beer cans are going to finish on the sweet side.

Try the iso-hops if you wish. Can't give you any advice there because I've never used them myself.

Good luck with it.

Warren -
 

Darren

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PVPP (polyclar) is the go for clearing cold beer. A tablespoon in warm water, shake the keg to evenly distribute it. Wait two days.
Wholla, clear beer.
 

warrenlw63

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Hey Darren,

Always been curious about, however never yet tried PVPP.

Is it OK to just use in the keg? I assume you just discard the first pint with the lees etc. How does it compare to Gelatine?

Warren -
 

Darren

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warrenlw63 said:
Hey Darren,

Always been curious about, however never yet tried PVPP.

Is it OK to just use in the keg? I assume you just discard the first pint with the lees etc. How does it compare to Gelatine?

Warren -
[post="60971"][/post]​
Warren, Works very well actually. Yes, You need to discard the first pint as it is a plastic type material and quite "bitty". I have always used it in the keg because it is easy to lift and shake them (I use large 65 litre fermenters).
I think gelatin is only useful to remove the suspended yeast.
PVPP interacts with polyphenol(tannin)/protein complexes. These are usually the chill haze forming compounds. For this reason I think it should be used at cold temps. Also PVPP is probably best used in light coloured lagers.
cheers
Darren
 

warrenlw63

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Cheers Darren,

Cleared it up no end for me. :) (No finings pun intended).

Warren -
 

Tim

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Darren,
Where abouts can you get PVPP??
 

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