Cleaning

[UsernameTaken]

I am never quite confident I have done the best I can when it comes to cleaning and storing my fermenters after bottling my beer.

And I have managed to trace an infection back to a fermenter which I have now disposed of. Ironically it was not my oldest one that had gotten infected!

So, after bottling I hose it out to get rid of all the easy to remove gunk.
Then it's 2 rounds of hot water and and Oxyper. First round to get rid of the clumped gunk and second round for good measure!
Then multiple rinses to get rid of the Oxyper and upside down to dry.

I am never sure how dry it needs to be before I put it away and have seen mould form before so need to wash it all again!!

Taps and rubber seals and air lock as get the same treatment in a separate container.

Can anyone tell me if I am cleaning too much, not enough or just right?

Or does anyone have a better more reliable process?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[klangers]

I can't say that it's too much or not enough without seeing it, but I can say you clean significantly more than me. I've never had an infection.

I simply hose the fermenter out such that all visual evidence of yeast or other crud is gone, disassembly the outlet valve/tap and clean that and let everything dry completely (usually in the sun).

I would say that putting away wet is a likely source of problems. There's no point sanitising before putting away - something else will simply start eating whatever it was. Obviously necessary to sanitise before fermenting.

 

[tugger]

The only way to be sure.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

You can never clean to much

It also pays to change your santising products. Use bleach, caustic soda, peroxide etc as well

Nver store items wet. Best thing to do is to dry them in full sun as UV helps kill bugs

 

[UsernameTaken]

Thanks Klangers. Drying in the sun is not usually an option for me most of the year, but I see your point.

Thanks also Tugger, what exactly have you posted a photo of?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

From your description I'm assuming these are plastic fermenters.


It is very very difficult to clean plastic completely if it has been in contact with anything that is highly non-polar (read hop components): you can see this if you put pasta sauce in a polythene container for a while then wash it, it will be pale orange because some of the lycopene from the tomato has dissolved into the polythene. It will take a couple of goes through the dishwasher to get it out.


Oxyper was designed as a sanitiser that was more tolerant of organic soils than PAA and presented fewer OHS issues, it is unfortunately not nearly as effective and it's not a cleaner as such. It also degrades over time even in the solid form, buy it from somwhere with good turnover and use it within a few months.


You would be better off using an actual cleaner to clean: 2% caustic at 60 degrees is the usual recommendation be very careful, it burns badly. Rinse the caustic out then rinse again with PAA. Do not rinse the PAA, just drain it out as well as you can and leave the container to dry before putting it away.


If you really can't dry the container the following method works really well but costs a couple of dollars: rinse the container with water, drain as well as you can. Rinse the water out with metho, drain as well as you can. Rinse the metho out with acetone, drain as well as you can. The acetone will evaporate off leaving a clean dry durface.

 

[droid]

metho and acetone ok on plastic? I would have thought it would leach or whatever the term is - get into the plastic itself

threads and crevices are problem spots, when washing plastic fermenters i would fill up a bit of the FV with hot water - swirl it around, wipe the ring of gunk off, then rinse repeat

the plastic taps come apart with a couple of pliers or similar - they really need to be stored dry

oh yeah - i'd make up a paste of bi-carb soda and wipe that around everywhere till next use

good luck mate

 

[UsernameTaken]

Thanks for all the advice. I will look into a better cleaner. And am now thinking of using a blow drier to dry the fermenters unless anyone sees a problem with that?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[niftinev]

do you sterilise before each use? if not you probably should

get some starsan and do it

 

[UsernameTaken]

Yes I sterilise with starsan before fermenting a new batch. I was just worried about not effectively cleaning and drying for storage after bottling.

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Frothy1]

.

 

[tugger]

I agree with lyrebird, 2 to 3% caustic, sodium hydroxide. Is the best cleaner.
With long gloves and eye protection wash with caustic and rinse well and dry. Then before use I like to full volume sanitise with starsan for 20 min, it's cheap.
Drain with the lid on and the airlock in place via the bottom tap, open it and pour out the remaining liquid, seal it up and it's ready for beer.

The thing I posted a pic of is an atp meter.
It measures the level of bacteria on a surface by sniffing out there by products.
Here is a short vid on how.
https://youtu.be/ng7BVQ3XTyM

 

[kaiserben]

I've had 1 infection in the past ~70 brews. I might have just been very lucky, but what I do is very simple:

I rinse and wipe away krausen ring with a chux wipe and hot/warm water until there is no visible signs of yeast inside fermenter.
Then fill fermenter with hot water and sodium perc (at ratio of 1 teaspoon for every 2L). I let that sit and rotate (ie remember to also leave it upside down to make sure all internal areas have had a good soaking of at least an hour).
I then rinse well with cold water.
I then put in a solution of no-rinse sanitiser, making sure the liquid level is above where the tap is.
And then store it like that, wet, with the no-rinse inside.

When I want to use it again I shake and then dispose (or re-use) the no-rinse solution.

IMO trying to get stuff to dry is a pain in the arse and if you don't get it bone dry that's the most likely cause of infection.

 

[UsernameTaken]

That sounds like a great idea!

How long would you happily leave it before your next brew?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

metho and acetone ok on plastic?

Both perfectly OK on polythene: it is well outside both solvation radii. Last time I looked the bottles of acetone in Bunnings were polythene.

Since polythene isn't soluble in them, they're not soluble in polythene either so no they don't leach into it.

 

[Coodgee]

I hose out my fermenter immediately after emptying to get the loose shit out. Then fill to the brim with water and add a capful of napisan. Then just leave it full of that solution until I am ready to brew again. then just empty it out, rinse 3 times and sanitise with starsan. My fermenters are as white as the day I got em.

 

[kaiserben]

That sounds like a great idea!

How long would you happily leave it before your next brew?

Cheers,
UNT

Several weeks without even worrying.

I've had fermenters sit around for a couple of months and not had a problem. In fact I keep stuff like a bottling wand and transfer tubing in a fermenter full of no-rinse solution. If I need some solution for another purpose I'll pour some out of the tap from that fermenter.

So 2 months is probably about as far as I've been comfortable with leaving stuff before mixing up some fresh no-rinse solution.

I treat PET bottles the same fermenters. Stored with about an inch of no-rinse solution in the bottom (always making sure some found finds its way around the thread area of the lid).

With glass bottles, because I can't seal them I dry those properly after cleaning.

EDIT: And I wouldn't leave no-rinse in any of my stainless steel gear for longer than necessary.

 

[Spiesy]

Best solution - ferment in stainless.

I know it costs a bit to get up and running, but as many brewers will attest, it's a fantastic investment for your brewery.

Stainless is easy to clean, it's also less likely to impart flavours/aromas on beer (from previous brews) and I think it helps facilitate clearer beer during crash chilling.

 

[rude]

Well here we go this is my way for plastic fermenters & cubes

Rinse with hot water to get clean as possible after ferment tap as well

30g per 10 L so I put in 100g sodium percarbonate in fermenter & add a kettle full of boiling water

Swirl around a bit sometimes but after a while I top up with hot tap water to the top

Like Coodgee I leave full till ferment day empty & rinse well with hot tap water then sanitise

 

[LiquidGold]

Doesn't diluted sodium percarbonate break down into hydrogen peroxide (which eventually breaks down into water and oxygen) and sodium carbonate? I once left a cube with napisan in it for (admittedly longer than I should have) thinking it was no rinse sanitiser and came back to it full of floaties and gunk.

After a good rinse and clean with napisan or sod perc I let mine dry but store away unsealed to prevent mould. Usually I just leave them upside down somewhere with the lid off or the tap out. Might not be best practise but I usually end up giving them another quick clean before sanitising anyway. I have however been thinking about storing sealed with sanitiser in them which would prevent cleaning them twice.