Cider- Fresh Juice Or Not

[pk.sax]

I'll keep it posted here. I did notice that yeast in the carboy that had less headspace didn't settle out like the other one did. Maybe the extra oxygento start gave the one I tested a bigger kickstart! -shrug- well, I'll find out soon enough wish u were in melb, could've tried it urself, uncarbonated of course
Just an interesting thing, the cider I tried to make with cloudy apple juice actually has turned out more like an apple wine, apfelmost more like it. A few friends tried it last weekend and remarked that it absolutely cleaned up the palate. I hope some apple shines through with aging, we tasted a lot of fruitiness in it but no apple :S

 

[hazard]

I often throw together a keg filler by combining 6 * 3L coles brand bottles of juice (either apple, apple/blackcurrant or a blend of those two) and just a couple of my baggies of US05 (I buy it by the 500g block and split it into 7g bags when I open it.

It's not Bulmers or Magners, but I'd call it better than that 5 seeds ****.

Hi Pollux, what sort of FG do you get from US05? How long does it take? I've been fermenting my cider (refer to post #31 above) for 2 .5 weeks now and it seems stuck at 1010. I'm guessing that US-05 doesn't ferment as dry as wine yeast, but don't want to guess wrong and finish up with bottle bombs!!

 

[pk.sax]

Gravity was 1010 on 24 september

bottled yesterday, 11 days from last reading, gravity was STILL 1010. And yes, I did shake (not stir) and all that, checked yesterday after a few warmer days just to be sure. It was 1010 in both carboys, the one I checked last time and the one that has not been disturbed at all since pitching.

Yeast has picked up the priming dextrose already and I can see trub settling in the bottles slowly. It had all settled out in the carboys over the long fermentation and I could basically read a book through it, same with what I bottled, no chilling or finings required at all.

So, I suppose the pear juice does have a fair bit more un-fermentable sugars than apple juice. Anyway, bottled a crate-full and have to wait for the carbonation to happen Didn't detect any off flavours in the sample I tasted while bottling.

 

[BjornJ]

Looking forward to hearing how this one turns out.
I like pear cider, wouldn;t mind making a mix of apple and pear if that ends with higher FG than apple-only cider.
I saw someone say that ciders could be considered more lagers than ales, does it make sense to use a lager yeast and lower temp when fermenting a cider?

thanks
Bjorn

 

[bum]

See the "Fermentation" section of Thirsty's post.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=32702

 

[pk.sax]

Fermentation??
Use a nice white wine yeast. Dont use EC118 (champagne) it will be harsh and nasty. She suspects the Wyeast cider varieties might be a "safe" choice for home use.
Ferment cool at 12-13
If it rings your bells, stirring up the yeast lees every day of two will give you that nice yeasty/bready/autolyic taste you get in whites and sparkling sometimes (yum)

I've been using white wine yeast up until now, haven't been giving the yeast lees any regular stirs... only when the yeast all drops out and I suspect incomplete fermentation.... Not sure I want bready flavours in my cider either.. hmnnn

12-13 degrees.... now there is something I haven't tried. Mine usually stayed at 16, occasionally going to 18 on a warmer day. This latest one finished at 20 degrees because of the warm weather. I'll give a cold temp a try next time I'm making some, thanks the yeast packet claims tolerance anywhere from 10 to 30 degrees.... so, yeah.. it should technically work.. hehe.

BTW, my apple/pear cider wasn't as tart out of the fermenter an the cloudy apple one I made. I hope the finished thing is somewhat that way too. Do you happen to know what oxidising the apple juice does to its taste bum? I mean, I can always source some H2O2 and rapid oxidise my juice before pitching if it provides any benefits.

 

[bum]

No idea. All I know is that it darkens the finished product. Cut up some apple pieces and leave them out to go brown - taste difference should be similar(ish), if any.

 

[pscarazza79]

Hi guys, im getting ready to to do a apple/pear cider from store bought juice and am using wyeast 4766, it reccomends 21 to 24 degrees, for fermentation, can you ferment slightly lower say around 16 to 18 or will the yeast struggle. cant seem to find any info any help would be great from someone who uses 4766.

 

[pk.sax]

Hmnnnn, I haven't tried 4766 yet, hav a pkt in the fridge that I mean to use when I make a big batch.

Apple and pear turns ou quite well though my previous cider attempt was it and it has gone crystal clear in the bottles without any chilling. I can read fine print through it!

Gl mate, tell u how you go when you do hopefully someone can answer your question. I've fermented with white wine yeast @ 15-16 degrees and the results age been tart and winelike tastes with apple flavour and sweetness. Need to give wine yeast a go at higher temps to see how it affects it.

 

[Airgead]

Hi guys, im getting ready to to do a apple/pear cider from store bought juice and am using wyeast 4766, it reccomends 21 to 24 degrees, for fermentation, can you ferment slightly lower say around 16 to 18 or will the yeast struggle. cant seem to find any info any help would be great from someone who uses 4766.

I use 4766 for my ciders but they are fresh juice not store bought. On my fresh juice coders I find it gives a very good result but I seem to remember someone saying that it didn't do so well on store bought. There was a thread a while back in this section discussing the various yeasts. I think Brewer Pete started it.

If you do use 4766, I find it gives best results fermented quite cold. I usually ferment at 15-16C.

Cheers
Dave

 

[manticle]

Hi guys, im getting ready to to do a apple/pear cider from store bought juice and am using wyeast 4766, it reccomends 21 to 24 degrees, for fermentation, can you ferment slightly lower say around 16 to 18 or will the yeast struggle. cant seem to find any info any help would be great from someone who uses 4766.

I fermented my recent 4766 around 16. no worries - just be patient.

 

[pscarazza79]

Thanks for the info re 4766 will give it a go at 16 degrees at post back on results.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Done one with a french champagne yeast. And it isn't as dry as a the proverbial forum fodder.

I did cheat - got a cheap kit cider on clearance from coles and added in 6L of juice to a 15L batch after boiling.

Tasted it from fermenter in doing FG reading. Tastes excellent. Looking forward to tasting it as fizzy junk.

Goomba

 

[proudscum]

Has anyone used "PRESHAFRUIT" juices they are not cheap but are cold pressed and the taste is mind blowing.Granny smith tastes like drinking the whole apple.
Just a thought.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Has anyone used "PRESHAFRUIT" juices they are not cheap but are cold pressed and the taste is mind blowing.Granny smith tastes like drinking the whole apple.
Just a thought.

My brother (who is relatively new to brewing) tried one bottle and some cinnamon in a beer.

Chucked it in after primary without boiling and it introduced infection. So either the juice or cinnamon did it (or both), and we then noted that the juice isn't pasteurised, so it could be capable of introducing an infection.

Goomba

 

[proudscum]

My brother (who is relatively new to brewing) tried one bottle and some cinnamon in a beer.

Chucked it in after primary without boiling and it introduced infection. So either the juice or cinnamon did it (or both), and we then noted that the juice isn't pasteurised, so it could be capable of introducing an infection.

Goomba

Good point.you may be able to do a simple pasteurizing process to kill off wild yeast etc but not boil it as that defeats the purpose of using a great base product to start with.The joys of playing with live beasties.Could you also use campden tablets to fix this problem?

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Good point.you may be able to do a simple pasteurizing process to kill off wild yeast etc but not boil it as that defeats the purpose of using a great base product to start with.The joys of playing with live beasties.Could you also use campden tablets to fix this problem?

No idea (see your signature).

I'm of 2 minds whether boiling does ruin flavour, but that's okay.

You'd be better off using real apples - for the cost and at least the yeast residing in apples is what naturally occurs in cider. I'm going to pick up a kg of different varieties next time and do a "multi variety" cider with a base juice and the apples to broaden the palate (kind of like doing a wide malt profile on beer).

Goomba

 

[The_Duck]

Has anyone used "PRESHAFRUIT" juices they are not cheap but are cold pressed and the taste is mind blowing.Granny smith tastes like drinking the whole apple.
Just a thought.

I use the Preshafruit juice to adjust the balance in my ciders once kegged. It is clear and has no nasties in it. Not worried about kicking off fermentation again as it only goes in the keg after it has been cold crashed/conditioned and stuck in the keg fridge.


Also I use juice from Wildabout Fruit. The apples for their juice are sourced from about 5 mins away from my place and the juice plant is in Wandin VIC, about 15mins the other direction. I buy their seconds from the farm gate (bad labels, poor filtration etc) for $18 for 12 litres. Juice has no additives whatsoever and is flash (heat) pasteurised to kill bacteria.

The ONLY drawback I have is that I have no control over the varietal mix used to create the juice.

Having said that I am hoping to build an apple scratter and a press over the summer, ready for the 2011 season. My old method using a cafe juicer was a PITA.

Someone asked about sterilising juice from apples if doing the cider from scratch. I drop the apples in a Milton bath for 30 mins to kill any bacteria and then wash in clean water before juicing. Never had any infections in any batches I have made. Not sure that technique would work for woody spices tho.... maybe boil for 10 mins then dump the lot in the juice ? Maybe boiling water in a coffee plunger would also work ?



Duck

 

[beerbrewer76543]

Woolworths (in Perth at least) have Apple and Pear juice 3L x2 on special, save about $4... That's almost half price!

edit: special is on this week

 

[dave_h]

Well, to continue on from my OP.

Not sure if ive got a stalled fermentation.

The gravity readings were;

OG 29/9/10 1046
4/10/10 1034 (temp 15.6) bubbling away very nicely
7/10/10 1030(temp 13.2)
11/10/10 1025 (temp 13.8)
20/10/10 1025 (temp 13.5)
1/11/10 1023

I gave it a good stir on the 20/10/10 (didnt introduce air to the mix) and went away for work. Got back last night and the gravity has not dropped much.

I used a mix of 50/50 apple pear juice (i think, as ive thrown out the containers), some guys were saying that the pears help to keep the FG up but I think 1023 is still pretty high. I also added in 500g of lactose which will keep the FG up a bit.

Is it worth chucking some more yeast in (Saf 04). I will be bottling and would naturaly like to avoid bottle bombs...

Anyone got any thoughts?

Thanks