Chinese Hops? What Next

[MarkBastard]

The thing about the death of local boutique retailers is that it's all sort of a democracy. They pack up because there simply isn't a demand anymore. It's not really sad, it's just a chance in spending trends really.

What's sad is when these stores think that they have some right to operate and that people ordering through other means are morally wrong.

 

[manticle]

I dare say a very similar thing is happening on the HBS scene. Very sad I reckon. I have seen a number LHBSs pack up shop over the past few years. Its not going to be worrying the big online guys, more sales for them. But I think there's a good chance that in a few years down the track we'll find the idea of a "LHBS" is gone, and we will be worse off for it (whether in terms of healthy competition, friendly advice, or simply a place we can bolt to on a Saturday morning if we find there's no yeast in the fridge!). And by then it will be too late to go back. Bit of a sad trend. I find the whole online concept a bit cold and sterile - sure you can get advice over email, but you can't replicate dropping into the HBS for a beer and a yarn, or hands-on problem solving.

The idea that international online transactions are somehow 'big' and that all local stores are run by mum 'n' pop type people is a little off. Not talking specifically about this buy which obviously comes from a reasonable size wholesaler but I buy a fair bit of stuff online (most of it music) and I am buying either directly from artists, directly from previous owners (discogs etc) or directly from extremely small, one man (sometimes family run) labels. They just may happen to be based in sweden or Italy.

As for beer stuff - I buy that online too - from grain and grape. I've spent far more at that shop due to the ease of transacting over the net (I neither drive nor have a car) than I would otherwise.

I'm not saying your perspective is invalid but there is a different one.

 

[T.D.]

What's sad is when these stores think that they have some right to operate and that people ordering through other means are morally wrong.

I agree, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. But by the same theory we should all still be able to participate in grain and hop bulk buys (direct with Australian wholesalers), yet some retailers think its their right to stop that happening. So in actual fact the HBS industry is far from a democratic affair, more dictatorial...

And lets not fool ourselves, over the period where online stores have burst onto the scene, we have seen a clear increase in prices almost across the board.

 

[Bribie G]

I'm old enough to have seen entire cycles in trading methods in my life time, and guess what it ain't going to end any time soon. When I was a lad after WW2 Mam would send me down to the local COOP store with our member number (OK calling all Baby Boomer Poms... quick ... what was your COOP number when you were a kid.. ours was 93717 you never forget it.)

There you would queue at the counter and speak your order "pound of sugar, pound of butter, can of Heinz baked beans etc...". The store assistant would assemble your order as you spoke ... literally carving off a pound of butter from a big slab etc. God it was medieval. Then supermarkets came in. Remember they were stand alone places and didn't sell meat or fruit, which you would purchase elsewhere. Then big shopping malls came in and the supermarkets went fresh fruit and meat halls and onsite bakeries.

This morning I went to ALDI, which is becoming hugely popular here because it's stand alone and not in a mall so you can get in and out in a third of the time as Woolies where you have to park half a k away. Where I work a couple of extra night owls and 7 elevens have opened in the area, almost back to idea of the old corner store. Another cycle within a cycle.

Any Poms remember the Littlewoods catalogue? The catalogue was twice the size of a white pages and you could buy just about anything from it mail order, most of my clothes and shoes came from it when I was a kid because few people had cars and you couldn't get to the mall because there were no malls.

As society changes trading methods change. The demise of the boutique shop is not entirely attributable to greedy National stores, it's more a result of societal change. Otherwise quarter of the population would still be working as blacksmiths or cess pit emptiers.


Edit: popped over for a look on Streetview, the old COOP store closed down decades ago but the old building has been turned into a hairdresser...and a corner store - you can even get a slab of BUL Stella for A$ 24. :icon_cheers: see the sky didn't fall in.

 

[Steve]

I'm old enough to have seen entire cycles in trading methods in my life time, and guess what it ain't going to end any time soon. When I was a lad after WW2 Mam would send me down to the local COOP store with our member number (OK calling all Baby Boomer Poms... quick ... what was your COOP number when you were a kid.. ours was 93717 you never forget it.)

There you would queue at the counter and speak your order "pound of sugar, pound of butter, can of Heinz baked beans etc...". The store assistant would assemble your order as you spoke ... literally carving off a pound of butter from a big slab etc. God it was medieval. Then supermarkets came in. Remember they were stand alone places and didn't sell meat or fruit, which you would purchase elsewhere. Then big shopping malls came in and the supermarkets went fresh fruit and meat halls and onsite bakeries.

This morning I went to ALDI, which is becoming hugely popular here because it's stand alone and not in a mall so you can get in and out in a third of the time as Woolies where you have to park half a k away. Where I work a couple of extra night owls and 7 elevens have opened in the area, almost back to idea of the old corner store. Another cycle within a cycle.

Any Poms remember the Littlewoods catalogue? The catalogue was twice the size of a white pages and you could buy just about anything from it mail order, most of my clothes and shoes came from it when I was a kid because few people had cars and you couldn't get to the mall because there were no malls.

As society changes trading methods change. The demise of the boutique shop is not entirely attributable to greedy National stores, it's more a result of societal change. Otherwise quarter of the population would still be working as blacksmiths or cess pit emptiers.


Edit: popped over for a look on Streetview, the old COOP store closed down decades ago but the old building has been turned into a hairdresser...and a corner store - you can even get a slab of BUL Stella for A$ 24. :icon_cheers: see the sky didn't fall in.

View attachment 31786

There was a coop next door to where I grew up. Did all our shopping there. Its now a DVD store. And yes I do remember the Littlewoods catalogue. Bought my first BMX from it. A yellow and blue Raleigh Burner. I got a paper round to pay it off for the next two years! Every Saturday and Sunday morning up at 5.00am every day of the year except Christmas Day.
Cheers
Steve

Edit: When I was even younger and living in a little village in Cumbria I remember the fruit n veg van that used to come round selling their wares.

 

[stillscottish]

Must have missed the 5Kg satchel when checking out Aust Post Fourstar but as mentioned have volunteered to help split the hops when they arrive but not saving much by collecting personally as the round trip to Brissy by train will cost a smidgen less than 1 x 5Kg & 1 x 2Kg satchels. Just glad to help out.

TP

Don't you get a pensioner's ticket, Pete?

:lol:

 

[T.D.]

see the sky didn't fall in.

:lol: Nobody's saying the sky will fall in. All I am saying is that everybody seems more than happy for all the smaller local shops to go out of business, but I don't think the importance of these guys are ever realised until they are gone, when its too late. The result will be a few dominant companies remain, and that never works out well for the consumer.

 

[townsville]

:lol: Nobody's saying the sky will fall in. All I am saying is that everybody seems more than happy for all the smaller local shops to go out of business, but I don't think the importance of these guys are ever realised until they are gone, when its too late. The result will be a few dominant companies remain, and that never works out well for the consumer.

I hear what you say, BUT the loss of the small shop has been happening since the 1970's AND WE ARE ALL TO BLAME in some small way.

We all contribute, whether we buy meat at coles, Milk at Woolworths. The LHBS wont be the last. Other Types of shops will follow fast, as long as we as comsumers seek out the cheapest, and convienent options.

BUT I think these are shifting time, the last 20-30 years. The speciality stores up to those times served a very important function. Since we the consumer couldn't possible organise "stuff" from afar, speciality stores were there to do that. They had the contacts, they knew what paperwork was required, all the hoops us poor consumers didn't have a clue.

If you like they were "brokers" more than stores, and like brokers, we paid the premium to use them.

But a broker can only work as long as the customer doesn't know how to source the goods dirrectly. So in the hop Bulk buy, with the www world, I can talk to the supplier and order. I still need a broker - the clearing agent at the wharf, (and pay a premium for their service) But thats all I need. Its just shifting times.

If the world gets lazy, speciality shops will remain, or new ones spring up where a brokerage servive is required. Look at the home loan brokers about. In my day I did the running about and got the best deal. NOw people use these more and more.

So where opportunities are lost, new ones are created. Shops have to addapt or die.

I also see for instance that one day, there Freight Clearing Houses dying. Its getting easier and easier to navigate thru the maize that is importing stuff.

I think now I can do it blindfolded.

Craftbrewer

 

[Steve]

Its not just your local corner shop. When I first came here you had a choice of big hardware stores before Bunnings, i.e. Magnet Mart, Pauls. These are now slowly going as people automatically think Bunnings because its what theyve got use to....
Cheers
Steve

 

[manticle]

Mitre 10, home hardware, tradelink (plumbing supplies) etc all still functioning.

I don't buy too much into the whole mega-compnaies kill all smaller ones becuse once they start to monopolise a bit, [some] people get sick of the lack of choice, quality and price setting. I just went up to the local arabic fruit market and halal butcher for my weekly groceries. I spend around 1/3 of a potential supermarket shop for better goods. Sure coles will be busy today but so were they. Some people still believe in community.

The idea that the internet is/will kill it all is equally ridiculous as the internet can be utilised by one person functioning from his/her garage or bedroom where previously s/he might have had to take out a crippling loan or lease to start a business.

I much prefer buying from independent retailers rather than franchisers and I do that both in person and online. If a chain store offers quality and competitive prices, I'll take advantage but I usually shun pure convenience (not exclusively but as a general rule) for most things. Online retail has just as much potential for supporting independence and DIY as 1902 village shopping (not that I was there which may disqualify my argument somewhat).

 

[townsville]

And for those to comment

The order for this forum was 380 kg of hops
140 kg Cascade
120 kg Saaz
60 kg Marco Polo
40kg Cluster
20 kg Nugget

Craftbrewer

 

[troopa]

Steve hit the nail along with the ideas of others

The stores such as Bunnings, Woolies Coles and even large brew shops and such are just clouding our minds into thinking they must be cheaper because they are bigger.. bigger means more buying power more buying power means cheaper prices for us... youd think

I was out helping a mate price up a decking for his new patio the other week
Of course our first stop was Bunnings... then Mitre 10 on their MASSIVE carpark sale weekend and then a smallish country hardware timber yard store

Bunnings was a tad under 100% dearer then mitre 10
The timber yard came in with a price 5% lower then mitre 10 and then said bugger that ill do it for cost plus 20%... shat all over everything and saved my mate nearly $2700 off Bunnings prices and thats without haggling just a couple of hours of shopping around and not assuming that the easiest place to get stuff is always the cheapest

The Internet is a great thing and is helping ppl without much skill obtain knowledge and items that they previously had no idea they could get
But the internet and large business i believe are also twisting our thoughts into thinking they are the only way to go

Tom

Edit.. What Manitcle said ... damn i hate it when you get beat to the same idea

 

[T.D.]

Steve hit the nail along with the ideas of others

The stores such as Bunnings, Woolies Coles and even large brew shops and such are just clouding our minds into thinking they must be cheaper because they are bigger.. bigger means more buying power more buying power means cheaper prices for us... youd think

I was out helping a mate price up a decking for his new patio the other week
Of course our first stop was Bunnings... then Mitre 10 on their MASSIVE carpark sale weekend and then a smallish country hardware timber yard store

Bunnings was a tad under 100% dearer then mitre 10
The timber yard came in with a price 5% lower then mitre 10 and then said bugger that ill do it for cost plus 20%... shat all over everything and saved my mate nearly $2700 off Bunnings prices and thats without haggling just a couple of hours of shopping around and not assuming that the easiest place to get stuff is always the cheapest

The Internet is a great thing and is helping ppl without much skill obtain knowledge and items that they previously had no idea they could get
But the internet and large business i believe are also twisting our thoughts into thinking they are the only way to go

Tom

Edit.. What Manitcle said ... damn i hate it when you get beat to the same idea

Couldn't agree more, well said. Sums up my point perfectly. I just see home brew creeping towards the "bunnings" model, and I'm not sure I like it.

On the hardware analogy, I have a Mitre 10 within walking distance of my house. Or there is a bunnings which is around a 10min drive away. I often find myself in the car on the way to bunnings before realising I could have wandered up the road to Mitre 10 instead, and I feel like a real idiot because of it! :lol: But when I do go to the Mitre 10 store, which is much smaller, I have never once not been able to get what I want, and I have always been really impressed by the prices - always as good as and often much better than Bunnings! To be honest I think Bunnings is starting to drop the ball a bit.

 

[winkle]

Wot this tread needs is some sheep.
View attachment 31788

Well it can't get much more OT can it?

Veering back somewhere near the topic - are you up for a 60 or 90 minute IPA brewday when these hops arrive Bribie?

 

[Steve]

Manticle, whats a halal butcher?

 

[Bribie G]

Wot this tread needs is some sheep.
View attachment 31788

Well it can't get much more OT can it?

Veering back somewhere near the topic - are you up for a 60 or 90 minute IPA brewday when these hops arrive Bribie?

Depending on work schedule I'll be up for that: I'm thinking more of a Silk Road CPA (Chinese Pale Ale) :icon_cheers:

4000 BB Pale Pilsener
500 Rice (what else)

30 Cruster 90 mins
20 Saa' 20 mins
15 Saa' hop tea after Primary

500g tub Chinese Maltose syrup into fermenter

US-05

Should be noice if the hops are up to scratch. If you have a place for a skyhook I could bring my gear along.


Edit I did an identical brew to the above except for using all Green Bullet. The basic beer is verry smooth, and an ideal test bed for the new hops. I'll bring a bottle to BABBS

 

[Steve]

Depending on work schedule I'll be up for that: I'm thinking more of a Silk Road CPA (Chinese Pale Ale) :icon_cheers:

4000 BB Pale Pilsener
500 Rice (what else)

30 Cruster 90 mins
20 Saa' 20 mins
15 Saa' hop tea after Primary

500g tub Chinese Maltose syrup into fermenter

US-05

Should be noice if the hops are up to scratch. If you have a place for a skyhook I could bring my gear along.


Edit I did an identical brew to the above except for using all Green Bullet. The basic beer is verry smooth, and an ideal test bed for the new hops. I'll bring a bottle to BABBS

I that normal wice or fried wice?????

 

[winkle]

Depending on work schedule I'll be up for that: I'm thinking more of a Silk Road CPA (Chinese Pale Ale) :icon_cheers:

4000 BB Pale Pilsener
500 Rice (what else)

30 Cruster 90 mins
20 Saa' 20 mins
15 Saa' hop tea after Primary

500g tub Chinese Maltose syrup into fermenter

US-05

Should be noice if the hops are up to scratch. If you have a place for a skyhook I could bring my gear along.


Edit I did an identical brew to the above except for using all Green Bullet. The basic beer is verry smooth, and an ideal test bed for the new hops. I'll bring a bottle to BABBS

Cool, bring your stuff and I'll do a Imperial CAP or the above mentioned 60/90 minute IPA with my rig - should be an entertaining days brewing :icon_cheers: .

 

[Steve]

Faaaaark - just lost about a litre of wort due to a boil over watching this thread!

 

[sinkas]

And from Chinas own mouth, to all those idiots who think China is a back water

"[: because we finish ALL CASCADE with 50MT, the machinery have to be washed fully, and then we take a next step, to process ALL SAAZ, step by step, ALL CLUSTER, NUGGET ............ and so on"

Craftbrewer

Yeh they wash it down with formaldehyde, then dry it with a DDT powder....muhahahahha