Can You Whirlpool With A False Bottom In Place?

[seravitae]

Hey guys,

I'm currently making a combined mash tun + kettle. It's a bit cheaper but still has the same functionality. However, I was just wondering if its possible to whirlpool with a copper slotted manifold still in place, or if anyone has a similar setup.

Otherwise, any ideas what fittings I could use to quickly connect/disconnect the manifold from the inside of my mash tun/kettle?

I was thinking of using stainless camlocks however they are a tad bulky so I'm a little worried I can't get the manifold right at the bottom of the tun/kettle.

Any ideas?

 

[Supra-Jim]

Can you elaborate on your plan a little? Are you lautering to a temporary vessel (bucket, plastic fermenter?), cleaning the grain out of the mash/kettle then pouring back the lautered wort and then boiling?

Cheers SJ

 

[T.D.]

A few people here use FBs in their kettles when hopping with flowers, so should be a few people around who can shed some light on your question. I am quite interested in the answer too. My guess is that these brewers don't bother whirlpooling as they simply let the flowers do the filtering anyway.

 

[seravitae]

Supra-Jim - yeah exactly that!



Basically, when designing my brewery, I thought "Why do I need 3 expensive containers?"

I have a 60L fermentor which im using as a temporary wort storage container. I lauter through the march pump into the container, then sparge through the mash/kettle into the container to make up the volume, clean the tun, and open the stopcock to drain back into the tun/kettle.

Currently I have a 25L SS boiler for strike/sparge water that i had lying around but I'm thinking of upgrading that to a plastic 60L fermentor as well so I can heat in one go.

T.D - Ah, cool. I'm not too worried about clogging specifically, but I am worried about the overall product. I will be filtering through a CB beer filter unit but there's no point in clogging it up with lots of garbage if I can avoid it..

 

[Supra-Jim]

I will be filtering through a CB beer filter unit but there's no point in clogging it up with lots of garbage if I can avoid it..

All sounds good.

If your filtering your beer once complete, you shouldn'thave too many dramas, any hop sludge you carry over into the fermenter should settle out quite easily during fermentation. Chill for a day or two prior to filtering to knock out extra yeast from the beer, then you should be filtering with no dramas at all.

Good to hear you have a pump too, saves your bak trying to lug around all liquid as you transfer in and out of the mash tun/kettle.

Cheers SJ

 

[seravitae]

Cheers mate, sounds like my plan will go to success.

The pump was one of the first things I bought... Primarily because i'm a wuss, and whinge about even lifting full fermentors

 

[mesa]

I think it depends on the type of false bottom. Parallel copper pipes in a rectangle for a manifold I would say no, it won't work (but you might as well give it a try) Domed false bottom, I'd say it might work. Concentric rings of copper pipe, this might work very well. The rings will tend to keep the trub from moving as you remove the wort, but I wouldn't try to remove the wort through the manifold. I'd try to remove it from the edge (either through a second tap or a siphon)

OTOH the manifold may work well in its self for trub separation. Alternatively you may wish to siphon off the top for trub separation (then the whirlpool doesn't matter so much but I still find it helps)

My understanding of the whirlpool is as follows.
What you are trying to do is get the wort spinning fast enough that towards the top of the kettle centrifugal force force the wort from the middle to the outside edge. At the bottom of the kettle (due to resistance with the bottom) the wort is spinning more slowly so the centrifugal force is less. As a result the weight of the wort at the top outside edge of the kettle forces wort down the side in across the bottom and up the middle (where there is less weight of wort becuase its all been pushed to the outside edge). As the wort moves across the bottom of the kettle from the outside rim to the middle it carries the trub with it forming a nice cone. Now its not just moving from the outside to the inside, its actually making a nice spiral and moving quite quickly. If it has to cross over too many pipes it will disturb the flow too much, and trub will likely build up behind the pipes rather than in a cone in the centre. If the pipes are concentric rings, it doesn't have to cross them so much and you'll get a nicer whirlpool

 

[seravitae]

Yeah i understand how whirlpooling works (ps it's centripital force )... I thought about the manifold maybe acting as a 'sheild' for the trub.. Interestingly enough my planned manifold is concentric rings, like this:

I'm going to be joining each segment with copper tees so I daresay seeing as the pipes are going in the direction of the whirlpool there shouldnt be too much agitation and thus it *should* work decently.. I'll post up some pictures of a whirlpool once I finish the rig..

 

[Asher]

Heres a pic of my drained kettle after whirlpool.
It's not used as a mash tun but does have a slotted manifold round the outside - so could easily be

 

[brettprevans]

a manifold isnt a false bottom. 2 differant things.

but as said above, cant see why ity wouldnt work.

 

[seravitae]

asher that looks really nice.. Owing to the large space in the middle, I'm half considering removing my two 'inner rings' so there's a nice flat space in the middle for the trub to pile up like yours..

Is it safe to use the manifold to drain completely, or would I still opt for putting a pickup tube in place? Im not sure how 'viscous' trub is, and whether tiling the pot slightly to drain off excess wort would work or if the trub would just get sucked through with it.

 

[Asher]

I'd loose the middle rings. This may have some effect on efficiency if you flood sparge. Probably not much if your batching. Either way repeatable results would be possible so you could account for it recipe formulation...

To drain completely or not - That's a personal question depending on how much trub your happy with in your fermentation
I pretty well suck my kettle till the manifold starts to pull air (whole or pellet).

I whirlpool hot and pump through a CFC BTW.

 

[matti]

I don't want to highjack a thread but is reluctant to start a new one.
Did a search but only found thread eons old.

For those that have tried both manifold and false bottom in the kettle.

Which one is the better?

I've got a false bottom to be fitted to my kettle.

Is it correct that the manifold gets blocked easily and false bottom drains quicker but may let through more trub.

So far I have whirl-pooled and put a strainer inside the kettle out let.
Burnt my hand way to often hence reluctant to brew Big batches again until it is all fixed.

MAtti

 

[T.D.]

For those that have tried both manifold and false bottom in the kettle.

Which one is the better?

I've got a false bottom to be fitted to my kettle.

Is it correct that the manifold gets blocked easily and false bottom drains quicker but may let through more trub.

I would think so Matti. I used a manifold in my mash tun for a while and had lots of trouble with flow rates (may have been the way I made it though!). I've seen a lot of brewers use a FB in their kettle and none have had any troubles with blocking from what I gather.

The other option is a bazooka screen in your kettle. Could also work as a mash tun if batch sparging (desperate attempt to get the thread back on topic! :lol: ).