Buying A Used 4wd

[Kai]

Just recently I've decided I want to purchase a 4WD, seven seater ranging somewhere around 10 kilobeans. I've been thinking a manual, diesel landcruiser, but I would love to hear opinions on what is a good second hand number to buy and I figure this place would be a good place to start for opinions.

So, is/is not a landcruiser a good idea? It looks like they hold value well judging by resale prices online and I know the old family hilux 4 cylinder ran long and hard. Or, is there a better option out there that someone would like to suggest?

Help!

 

[Maple]

Can't beat a diesel. The way I see it, there's only two choices, a Landcruiser or a Patrol. Both value for money and hold resale value well because a) they last, and B) they're everywhere 4WDs are meant to be. I've got the patrol and no regrets, I've got friend with the landies and they have no issues either. If you are looking for a serious off roader, these are my recommendations.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Go Patrol or Landcruiser...Both are tough and spares,parts & accesories are everywhere for them..You are splitting hairs between them... :icon_cheers:

Hilux's are like VB......if you have to...but would you..rough and horrible, but will get you pissed :unsure:

Pajero's are also good, but the diesels are slugs, but they are also tough and very capable

 

[bum]

Good resale value is a negative unless you're buying new. All it means is you're really getting less for your ten gorillas than with another make.

Of course nearly everyone I know who has a 4wd has a 'Cruiser and loves it to bits.

 

[Maple]

Clearance and entry/ exit angle are piss poor on a stock pajero.


...and isn't pajero Spanish for wanker? Or is that just a coincidence?

 

[Kai]

Good resale value is a negative unless you're buying new. All it means is you're really getting less for your ten gorillas than with another make.

I've never understood that one... I'm not sure I'd want to buy a used car that sold cheap for all models; to me that suggests there's something wrong with it.

Since it's been mentioned more than once, Patrol was my second preference. Basically after something that's going to keep on being reliable without costing the earth. Would also prefer it to not be spineless

 

[bum]

It is because the value is relative to what people will pay not (necessarily) what it is worth.

A short sequence of irrelevant for instances - EA Falcons were an awful new car. Horrible resale. Awesome budget buy today. You can get the biggest straight six Ford ever made (goes like shit out of a shanghai) in great nick for like $2k. Mangas are a good new car buy. Good resale value too. Pretty famous for their (admittedly not huge) problems after you put a few clicks on the clock but this does not effect resale as the market is willing to pay.

The above notwithstanding, I guess my point is that high resale means high price in a secondhand market (you).

 

[komodo]

Patrol with the 4.2L diesel would be my pick but you'd be limited to a GQ and no turbo (other than after market)
That'll be slow.

Yotas hold value - but they bust diffs, 80 series cruisers are tough on front brakes and your talking a 10+ yr old vehicle. Buying a diesel landcruiser will generally mean its been either a work horse or used for reasonably serious offroading

I would look to the Paj or a GU patrol with the grenade 3L. The 3L patrols used to have issues but they seem to have been resolved in series III onwards and theres a few cheap mods to help with the problems caused by the emissions control systems.

I really think you need to elaborate why you want a 4x4. Is it for moving people? camping? towing a boat / horse float? 4x4ing?
Why do you need 7 seats? Most people end up ripping the rear seats out as they are a PITA unless your moving kids around a lot.

The landcruiser will offer slightly better comfort (comparing GQ with 80 series) but the GU will be more comfortable again and offer better fuel ecconomy (about 9L/100Ks vs 14/100ks for the GQ and 80 series)

I've owned both. I love the cruisers (dont tell my mates that they'll never let me live it down) but i think value for money you cant beat the GU for a full sized offroader.

One thing to really think about barn door (patrol) Vs tailgate (cruiser) both have pros and cons. Tail gate is awesome for a road side cuppa. Its a bitch to load the weekly shopping. Barn doors are great for loading the groceries but when you've got a car full of luggage it can be a bitch opening the doors on a hill. You'd be supprised at how much this might actually sway you long term.

Your not concidering a petrol on LPG? Diesel isnt really that cheap to run a full sized wagon around town - they really dont show savings (unlike more modern vehicles) untill you get them on the open road. I return 15L/100Ks around town in a 2001 GU 4.2 turbo diesel. Im also on mud terrains and have an ARB steel bull bar. On the open road I get 12/100 and on roadies on the open road I can get that down to 11/100.

If buying with a bull bar - steel bars are worth more - alloy look good but are about as useful as alfoil in an impact with wild life also probably 70% of patrols were purchased new with alloy bar thrown in free with driving lights

 

[InCider]

Hey Kai,

The RAV 4 will do just about anything the Cruisers and Patrols will do, but as they are lighter, will save you $$$ in fuel. They also do not com with the noisy smoky diesel offering as the RAV is a more refined fourby. They do not come with a lot of mods for the same reason, and their paris-dakar pedigree is world renowned.

Cheers,

InCider.

 

[white.grant]

I second Komodo's thoughts. For the money you're looking to spend you will likely have a some trouble finding a fresh diesel.

I used to run the 3L GU's when I lived up in the northwest of NSW. It was either one of them or an 80 series (or a 100 if you farmed cotton). The GU is a very capable vehicle offroad and gave great mileage away from traffic lights. That all changes with a bit of traffic when they become slow and thirsty. We used to turn them over every 100,000k or so and never actually blew up the engine, had a bit of gearbox trouble on two of them however.

If you want 7 seats and are going to use them regularly for anyone bigger than a newborn, you would be better off with the Landcruiser, the Patrol just doesn't have that much room in the dog box. In fact once you've got the third row of seats in, there's less room than your standard hatchback.

cheers

grant

 

[Peteoz77]

Hey Kai,

The RAV 4 will do just about anything the Cruisers and Patrols will do, but as they are lighter, will save you $$$ in fuel. They also do not com with the noisy smoky diesel offering as the RAV is a more refined fourby. They do not come with a lot of mods for the same reason, and their paris-dakar pedigree is world renowned.

Cheers,

InCider.

+1. I have owned a few Rav 4's and loved them all. The 2.3L in the 2003 and later models was a big power jump from the 2.0, but the older Rav's had a low range and centre diff lock.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Yotas hold value - but they bust diffs, 80 series cruisers are tough on front brakes and your talking a 10+ yr old vehicle. Buying a diesel landcruiser will generally mean its been either a work horse or used for reasonably serious offroading

80 & 100 series ( 75 & 78 series Troopies) are famous for busting gearboxes at about 150,000Km The have a splined output shaft that gradually wears. One day you will be sitting at a set of lights and pop, your going no-where

Troopies are a better in the tough stuff, but not as Comfy. Get a coil spring front end troopie.

When I worked on the Railways, I drove Troopies and L/C Wagons for the best part of 15yrs...and we REALLY gave them a workout. They where driven hard & fast..

A couple of other things...

A Troopie is a lot more stable on rough dirt roads at high speed, 80/100 series would tend to skit around a bit. This is due to the Troopies longer wheelbase & the fact that 80/100 are more square in their wheel base..

Toyota Motors go for ever...like 500,00km without issues, BUT Patrols have better gearboxes and Diffs.

200 series Landcruisers require wheel spacers if driving in rutted dirt roads. They roll over easy due to the difference in front/rear wheel track ( This comes from a Toyota mechanic )

The same mechanic said he would go for a GQ patrol as they arfe tough, reliable and there are 1,000's of parts and accessories that are cheap for them

 

[brettprevans]

Yup Kai you need to elaborate on what you want it for.
a 7 seat rules out a few 4x4 like the RAV (even though i have a 2007 model and love it). for a 7 seat toyota your looking at the kluger which is better than the ford territory etc.
landcruiser or patrol IMO. there is a reason the army still uses landcruisers as Ducati said.
or if you can find an old landrover (series 2 i think) it will keep going and going and going. but they are rough as guts. so they are definitely offroaders or workhorses.

 

[komodo]

Early (GU) Patrols had an issue with 5th but this has been fixed in later models and the earlier models "should" have been fixed by recall - this can be verified when buying by taking the VIN number to a dealer who should be able to look it up for you. They actually reverted the design back to the GQ (something to do with shaft length or something?)

LC100 are fricken elephants offroad and on road. They take up more room on the road. That said on road they do have way more space than both the 80 and the patrol. Off road the 100 series was "handicaped" by IFS - but this was changed back to live axel on the 105 series (100 series update) I believe. That said IFS will take most people most places they want to go with 2" of lift and 33" tyres If you lift a paw often enough you'll fit a dif lock and all your worries will be gone.

As suggest by grant the GU and GQ dont have a great deal of room in the back - but plenty of room for the average sized child upto about 12 / 13yrs old. On the other hand whilst im only a little fella (5'9" & 85kgs) I can still sit with "reasonable" comfort in the back of a LC100. I wouldnt want to drive to sydney sitting in the back - but for a run down to the pub (or home from the pub) its comfy enough.

I was unaware that the LC200 had different track width front and rear in the wagon. I know the troopy used to have this with the coil front models (possibly still does) and I know the leaf sprung patrol trays have this.

Personally I'd still be looking at the Paj if its just for towing and carting the family. I got the GU because the 100 series was out of my budget (plus all my mates with diesel cruisers were always doing diesel pumps and front diffs) I neede something comfy as a daily but tough enough to setup for touring and I eventually want to cut it into a 4 door tray back ($16,500 conversion ouch!). I deally I would have loved a 70 series for offroading/touring (im not a rock crawler so leaf springs would have hindered me too much) - but they are a pig around town and the 79 series was not released + when it did come out was way out of my budget.

Patrols with alloy wheels throw rims off the left hand side - i'm lead to believe this is a fairly scary experiance at 100kph. Some thing to do with the thread pitch and the seating of the nut on the alloy.

Rangie classics are a pissa of a vehicle off road and can be purchased dirt cheap - but I dont think they come with 7 seats (none of ours ever had 7 seats). Defenders are awesome - but remember they are brittish (My family has owned 3 XJ40 Jags, an MG ZT-T, 3 rangie classics (one i stuck on its lid), a rangie gen 3 (L322) HSE vogue, and 3 Rangie sports (mum and dad both have twin turbo V8 diesel sports) so I can assure you that brittish mechanical engineering is not upto the standards of the germans or the japs)

As for Landcruisers being driven by the army - the army also drive patrols and defenders and humvees. Nothing real special about any of them when you compare them to the G wagon that they are looking (or I believe have just entered a contract) at getting. Also the army are tough on their vehicles - but they also arent driven like civillians drive. They drive every where on 60PSI and drive with the right boot - momentum will get you everywhere - but it'll f**k shit up real quick which is why they change over vehicles so regularly. A civillian will generally ride around on 45psi around town and as lost as 16 - 18 psi off road for more traction and less wear on the driveline. The army also drive tanks and I beleive they are pretty reliable and go most places - that doesnt mean they are suitable for joe average...

 

[brettprevans]

they also drive Mogs which are fkn horrible no matter whether your Avg Joe or GI Joe

 

[white.grant]

they also drive Mogs which are fkn horrible no matter whether your Avg Joe or GI Joe

They can drive you up the wall in fact

 

[sinkas]

Just recently I've decided I want to purchase a 4WD, seven seater ranging somewhere around 10 kilobeans. I've been thinking a manual, diesel landcruiser, but I would love to hear opinions on what is a good second hand number to buy and I figure this place would be a good place to start for opinions.

So, is/is not a landcruiser a good idea? It looks like they hold value well judging by resale prices online and I know the old family hilux 4 cylinder ran long and hard. Or, is there a better option out there that someone would like to suggest?

Help!

why do you want a 4wd,

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

The new L/C Troopie and Cab/chasis with the V8 deisel is truly an awsome weapon....But will cost you $70k

And I can tell you that the 4.2ltr Turbo cruiser go like a cat shot in the arse...deceptivly quick...

75 and 100 series cruiser Aircons give up on hot days if you go faster than 120Kph..The engine runs hot, causing the aircon radiator to stay hot..Drop down to 100km and they are fine..

Oh...and dont touch an early model Prado....not worth it

 

[komodo]

Yeah but mogs have portals!

You can get portal kits for patrols too though :

Edit : yes that axle IS above the centre of the wheel - thats what portals do! more clearance with no lift! better on road handelling with no offroad comprimise (other than articulation - but a 2" spring lift will give most people enough articulation)

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

V8 Landcruiser Tray Top awsomeness