Bulk Oxidizing Agent PBW or Similar

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DarrenTheDrunk

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Hello Fellows

I was wondering if anyone has discovered something like PBW in large quantities and cheapish. Now before you jump down my throat about how little you use and how cheap it is and cost per brew and ..... etc etc, I am gunna have a crack at pressure fermenting in a 50 liter keg (as previously mentioned) and given it is very hard to look inside a very small hole in the keg to see if it is clean, I was wanting to fill the keg to 50 liters the allow the oxidizing action do its job with no or little chance of failure. I would use a very strong PBW and prob do it twice. I have wasted enough beer in learning how to keg beer and but for the advise of GRMBLZ and especially the Professor DAZGORE I would still be wasting beer. Thanks to them... I still waste beer...by tipping in to my belly!!!

CBBE
 
Hello Fellows

I was wondering if anyone has discovered something like PBW in large quantities and cheapish. Now before you jump down my throat about how little you use and how cheap it is and cost per brew and ..... etc etc, I am gunna have a crack at pressure fermenting in a 50 liter keg (as previously mentioned) and given it is very hard to look inside a very small hole in the keg to see if it is clean, I was wanting to fill the keg to 50 liters the allow the oxidizing action do its job with no or little chance of failure. I would use a very strong PBW and prob do it twice. I have wasted enough beer in learning how to keg beer and but for the advise of GRMBLZ and especially the Professor DAZGORE I would still be wasting beer. Thanks to them... I still waste beer...by tipping in to my belly!!!

CBBE
Just off topic sorry. How did you go in the end with your kegging? You made a thread a while back and seemed to be unhappy and not getting results? Just curious, i'm wondering if you're jumping from the pan into the fire.

I'm not bragging in anyway here but i am a learner kegger and i listened, watched, studied the best advice and haven't put a foot wrong. Its the best thing I've done with my brewing apart from now learning All Grain. I'm not trying to change your mind or anything, but my personal opinion is really nail one thing, then have a crack at the next. Disappointment after disappointment is enough to turn you away from anything.
 
Just off topic sorry. How did you go in the end with your kegging? You made a thread a while back and seemed to be unhappy and not getting results? Just curious, i'm wondering if you're jumping from the pan into the fire.

I'm not bragging in anyway here but i am a learner kegger and i listened, watched, studied the best advice and haven't put a foot wrong. Its the best thing I've done with my brewing apart from now learning All Grain. I'm not trying to change your mind or anything, but my personal opinion is really nail one thing, then have a crack at the next. Disappointment after disappointment is enough to turn you away from anything.

Hey buddy .. no problem at all. Your observation is, on the face of it, well founded. I have been very fortunate in getting a HUGE amount of help from a fellow from this site and continue to receive. I am brewing big time in terms of quantity and maybe I am being a bit erratic. You are venturing off to the grain brewing which does not interest me at this stage. I am venturing off into what I am doing. Just for info, my logic is that I want to brew the BEST extract beer that I can before I venture in to grain brewing. I think I will end up there down the track.

In the past just over 12 months, I would have brewed no less than 80-90 23 liter batches. Soooo much of it is still sitting in bottles and stubbies and god only knows when I will thin it out. Luckily I have a few drunk mates!! I guess I can summarize it as being like a kid in a lolly shop. I am so motivated and a sponge for knowledge about the new "hobby with benefits". Being from Victoria (bloody lock down) where I could not go out fishing in the boat, too wet to get into the paddocks and with cold wet days and being on a pension (not working), I had a hell of a lot of spare time on my hands. I honestly appreciate your reply mate and may you brew "Nectar from the Gods" in your ventures.

CBBE
 
Hey buddy .. no problem at all. Your observation is, on the face of it, well founded. I have been very fortunate in getting a HUGE amount of help from a fellow from this site and continue to receive. I am brewing big time in terms of quantity and maybe I am being a bit erratic. You are venturing off to the grain brewing which does not interest me at this stage. I am venturing off into what I am doing. Just for info, my logic is that I want to brew the BEST extract beer that I can before I venture in to grain brewing. I think I will end up there down the track.

In the past just over 12 months, I would have brewed no less than 80-90 23 liter batches. Soooo much of it is still sitting in bottles and stubbies and god only knows when I will thin it out. Luckily I have a few drunk mates!! I guess I can summarize it as being like a kid in a lolly shop. I am so motivated and a sponge for knowledge about the new "hobby with benefits". Being from Victoria (bloody lock down) where I could not go out fishing in the boat, too wet to get into the paddocks and with cold wet days and being on a pension (not working), I had a hell of a lot of spare time on my hands. I honestly appreciate your reply mate and may you brew "Nectar from the Gods" in your ventures.

CBBE

No worries mate. We have another thing in common, fishing. I live in Whyalla S.A. We used to be able to catch some of the biggest snapper in this beautiful land.

I replied to you because i dont want you to be let down again. You seem to be the bloke i'd love to have a beer with. I do admire you jumping in head first with your beer. There's nothing left behind in the way your thinking with what you want to do. I'm the sort of person that sits back, reads, watches, learns..........and then i'll have a crack when my confidence is up. Maybe i'm enthralled with your venture because your way of thinking is that little devil on my shoulder 🙂

I've put your thread adrift, but love reading what goes on. I'm learning too 😛
 
No worries mate. We have another thing in common, fishing. I live in Whyalla S.A. We used to be able to catch some of the biggest snapper in this beautiful land.

I replied to you because i dont want you to be let down again. You seem to be the bloke i'd love to have a beer with. I do admire you jumping in head first with your beer. There's nothing left behind in the way your thinking with what you want to do. I'm the sort of person that sits back, reads, watches, learns..........and then i'll have a crack when my confidence is up. Maybe i'm enthralled with your venture because your way of thinking is that little devil on my shoulder 🙂

I've put your thread adrift, but love reading what goes on. I'm learning too 😛
cheers mate. Yes, it is beyond this site but you certainly do have the BEST snapper fishing in Australia...and then a f#@$ ing politician stopped it all. I should not comment as I do not understand why but I envy you cobber. As they say "tight lines" and as I say "empty beer glass".. CBBE
 
cheers mate. Yes, it is beyond this site but you certainly do have the BEST snapper fishing in Australia...and then a f#@$ ing politician stopped it all. I should not comment as I do not understand why but I envy you cobber. As they say "tight lines" and as I say "empty beer glass".. CBBE
Hey mate. Just my personal opinion but you would be better off just rigging it up to use a bucket blaster or pond pump and some type of clean in place (cip)

The main areas to hit will be the krausen line when cleaning. This is easily cleaned if using a clean in place system.

For example, I clean 3 kegs and a fermenter using one batch of around 5L of PBW. I make it up at 1% so that's 50g.

You'd need to use 500g per clean, and its a LOT of water to be wasting in my opinion.

I would seriously look into clean in place system for it.
 
Hey mate. Just my personal opinion but you would be better off just rigging it up to use a bucket blaster or pond pump and some type of clean in place (cip)

The main areas to hit will be the krausen line when cleaning. This is easily cleaned if using a clean in place system.

For example, I clean 3 kegs and a fermenter using one batch of around 5L of PBW. I make it up at 1% so that's 50g.

You'd need to use 500g per clean, and its a LOT of water to be wasting in my opinion.

I would seriously look into clean in place system for it.
Thanks for that mate. I can not pretend I fully understand what you are saying but from my reading of your posts in the past...I have not doubt you are right. To be honest, I am not too worried about the amount of water I use. I never did understand if not in a drought why this is an issue. At a industrial level for sure but not for little old me doing home brew. Dont get me wrong... I am a ":team player" but ATM...water is not an issue. I will Pm you another day so I can better understand what you are saying as I am always keen to learn. I am on the hunt for this Sodium Percarbonate in 25kg bags. Hope you are well. I must say, it is time for my beauty sleep even though 10 straight years of "beauty sleep" would not improve my appearance but one must at least try. CBBED
 
Thanks for that mate. I can not pretend I fully understand what you are saying but from my reading of your posts in the past...I have not doubt you are right. To be honest, I am not too worried about the amount of water I use. I never did understand if not in a drought why this is an issue. At a industrial level for sure but not for little old me doing home brew. Dont get me wrong... I am a ":team player" but ATM...water is not an issue. I will Pm you another day so I can better understand what you are saying as I am always keen to learn. I am on the hunt for this Sodium Percarbonate in 25kg bags. Hope you are well. I must say, it is time for my beauty sleep even though 10 straight years of "beauty sleep" would not improve my appearance but one must at least try. CBBED
Haha fair enough. I just try to save as much water as I can when ever possible. Passionate about the environment and doing my part I guess.

Agreed on the beauty sleep, but with a toddler and another on the way sleep is just a distant memory!

Basically what I was trying to say is if you get like a pond pump (submersible pump) and you put it in a bucket, then you fill it with like 5l of PBW (Fancy name for Sodium Percarbonate) you then put the keg upside down ontop of the bucket. I believe you could then squirt the cleaner up through the dip tube of the keg through the coupler, and it would drain back out via the gas side. This means less PBW, less water and I believe the rinsing motion of the water helps clean much faster.

I had some dirty cruddy corny kegs sitting around for about 5 years between kegging set ups. Gave em a 10 minute PBW wash on a bucket blaster and bobs your uncle, and martins your aunt!
 
Thanks for that mate. I can not pretend I fully understand what you are saying but from my reading of your posts in the past...I have not doubt you are right. To be honest, I am not too worried about the amount of water I use. I never did understand if not in a drought why this is an issue. At a industrial level for sure but not for little old me doing home brew. Dont get me wrong... I am a ":team player" but ATM...water is not an issue. I will Pm you another day so I can better understand what you are saying as I am always keen to learn. I am on the hunt for this Sodium Percarbonate in 25kg bags. Hope you are well. I must say, it is time for my beauty sleep even though 10 straight years of "beauty sleep" would not improve my appearance but one must at least try. CBBED
https://www.kegland.com.au/bucket-blaster-keg-and-fermenter-washer-kit.html
And

https://www.keg-king.com.au/corny-cleaner-keg-and-fermenter-cleaning-kit.html
 
Ahhh, rug rats, make the most of it mate they grow up and make yer life very mmm interesting.
Cleaning through a D type connector with a bucket blaster wont work, too much resistance through the connector and coupler unless you remove the spear and treat it as a cornie, and that's a pain in the arse, because now you have two things to clean and those spears are !!!
 
Ahhh, rug rats, make the most of it mate they grow up and make yer life very mmm interesting.
Cleaning through a D type connector with a bucket blaster wont work, too much resistance through the connector and coupler unless you remove the spear and treat it as a cornie, and that's a pain in the arse, because now you have two things to clean and those spears are !!!
Ahhh well there you go!

I think he was going to use the cornie ball lock adapter 2inch thingo, would that make a difference?
 
Commercial kegs are designed to be cleaned upside down.
Pump in through the Dip Tube (Outlet) and return through the Gas side of the coupler.
They are made so the cleaner coming up the dip tube spreads out and runs down the sides evenly and cleans all of the keg. One thing you do need to do is open and close the flow a couple of times so cleaner runs down the dip tube cleaning the outside of it, means a valve between the pump and the coupler is a must.
We use Caustic but at home I would recommend PBW at 45-55oC and as above at 1-2% depending on how many kegs you are going to clean in a batch. I normally clean 20-30 in a run so have to be sure the caustic is going to be active in the last keg.
Remember that Caustic reacts with CO2 very quickly, especially hot, so if you are using Caustic it needs to be blown out with clean oil free compressed air (not a Bunnings or Supercheap compressor) not CO2. Using something like PBW means you can just use your existing CO2 system.

Not that: -
On the inlet side you need to be able to send in Air/CO2, Water, Cleaner and Sanitiser.
On the outlet side you need to be able to send to Waste, Cleaner Return, Sanitiser Return
A manifold made up of Tees and ball valves on both sides of the keg will make life a lot easier.
You need a pretty decent pump, effective cleaning involves both the chemical action and the physical washing action so more flow than you will get from a little home brew mag drive pump is a must.

At work all our beers are cask conditioned so they tend to have a fair bit more crap in then than would most commercial kegs, probably more like what most home brewers are going to get.
It takes 15 minutes to cycle a keg on out Premier Systems keg cleaner, cycle goes:-
Make sure all valves are closed, cleaner is hot, water, air and CO2 are available.
Mount keg upside down, action coupler
Open waste outlet, let any internal pressure will blow out any dregs and CO2 in the keg.
Rinse to waste with Tap water until waste looks clean.
Blow out any water with Air.
Close all valves.
Turn on pump, open Cleaner Return valve, open Cleaner Supply valve, allow to run for (well I do a timed 8 minutes) long enough to clean, make sure you open and close (Flutter) the Cleaner flow valve to clean the spear.
Close Cleaner flow valve, open Air Supply valve blow all cleaner to cleaner storage tank.
Close all valves.
Open waste outlet, Open tap water supply, rinse to waste Flutter water supply to rinse dip tube, close water supply, open Air Supply blow to waste.

About here at home I would just flush the keg with CO2 and sanatise by hand (a funnel in the top of a coupler) before use, pour a liter or so of an acid bases sanitiser in, roll the keg around, turn upside down, shake the shit out of it, fit the coupler turn upside down and allow to drain....
If you want to use a pumped sanatiser its pretty much a repeat of the cleaning cycle (shorter contact time), you need another tank and pump, more valves, many more chances to stuff up. Sending Caustic to the acid tank or vise versa is a favorite.
Strongly recommend you avoid a foaming acid sanitiser in pumped systems.

Might sound complicated but loosing beer to infections sux, if you want good beer cleaning has to be part of your religion, it isn't easy and takes work, cut no corners take no risks. Especially with Caustic its really dangerous I have a 30+ year old scar from a caustic splash, it can blind you for life - be extra careful if you use caustic.
Mark
 
HI all. Here is a bit of an update. I have ordered 25kg of sodium percarbonate for $65 and 25kg of sodium metabisulphite for $55 delivery to my door $20 (Melbourne to Geelong) so pretty happy with my purchase.
 
For those with time on their hands, and wanting a visual of what Mark ^ is discussing.
That’s not really what mark is discussing, he is talking about cleaning kegs with the spear in place.

As the OP only has 1 keg with the spear removed he needs to clean this can be done easily without any CIP gear. Simply fill the kegmenter with a few litres of hot cleaner of your choice and roll it back and forth vigorously for a few minutes taking breaks between if you want. Been doing this forever with fermenters kegs and cubes. CIP is only worthwhile if you are cleaning more than 3-4 kegs at a time in my opinion.
 
That’s not really what mark is discussing, he is talking about cleaning kegs with the spear in place.

As the OP only has 1 keg with the spear removed he needs to clean this can be done easily without any CIP gear. Simply fill the kegmenter with a few litres of hot cleaner of your choice and roll it back and forth vigorously for a few minutes taking breaks between if you want. Been doing this forever with fermenters kegs and cubes. CIP is only worthwhile if you are cleaning more than 3-4 kegs at a time in my opinion.
Hi mate. Oh I am ever so sorry S.E.. may I please ask what CIP is and OP for that matter but I gather that is me...My ex wife calls me way worse than "OP" I gotta say
 
CIP is Clean In Place
OP is Original Poster - You Darren.
Mark
ha ha...thanks. Aussies are so well known for creating acronyms or nicknames for just about anything and I gotta be honest...I am as guilty as hell. Thanks Mark
 
That’s not really what mark is discussing, he is talking about cleaning kegs with the spear in place.

As the OP only has 1 keg with the spear removed he needs to clean this can be done easily without any CIP gear. Simply fill the kegmenter with a few litres of hot cleaner of your choice and roll it back and forth vigorously for a few minutes taking breaks between if you want. Been doing this forever with fermenters kegs and cubes. CIP is only worthwhile if you are cleaning more than 3-4 kegs at a time in my opinion.
Which is what I linked to.
The OP (original poster) has two kegs with an option of another two, Oh that's 4, so CIP (clean in place) could be relevant, in this case it's not but you should read the thread before commenting on a single post.
Assuming people are physically able/inclined to roll 50L around may be your opinion, but you know what they say about opinions.
 
ha ha...thanks. Aussies are so well known for creating acronyms or nicknames for just about anything and I gotta be honest...I am as guilty as hell. Thanks Mark
Sorry to confuse matters I was trying to simplify them. Mark has given a very detailed account of how to clean kegs in a commercial environment and went on to describe how he does it at home which is similar to what I do but I thought that may have been lost in his long detailed post so was just pointing out you don’t need to go overboard with equipment if only cleaning a few kegs.
 

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