Building a deck

[TheWiggman]

My new house has a roughly 5.4 x 6m outdoor area, most of which is covered. I've bought most of the consumables and am going super-DIY this weekend on a 5 Star deck. Wood's lined up, bank account's ready to take a hit and I'm browsing a few tools to absorb into the cost of the project. I've done plenty of research on span tables, Standards and the like and am confident I've got it 95% right. I'm after some advice or tips from others who have grown a few chest hairs doing one of their own - or even better, if you're a chippie and you feel like parting some knowledge to a fellow brewer.

The easiest and hardest part is the arrangement of the bearers. On every resource, the stirrups hold a post and the post supports the bearers as per below (or in a similar arrangement) -

However, the deck is going to be pretty low (height of 400mm above ground) and I was wondering if I could just go the two bearers, side by side, cradled into the stirrup and bolted through. This way it saves purchasing extra posts and cutting notches in each post.

Seems to be a lot easier but doesn't seem to be a 'done thing'. Clearly the hardest part of all this is going to be positioning the stirrups in the correct location to start with while waiting for the concrete to set, and I'm wondering if this is the reason.

 

[droid]

you know what they say wiggy - a short cut is the longest distance between two points



I've done two different styles:
1) Using a concrete block in the shape of a pyramid which has a cross section cut out in the top for bearers
2) re-stumping using the newer style concrete stumps, bearers and then joists

Bearers can be 1500mm ? or something in span?
Joists have to be 450mm

you'd need alot of stirrups - could be wrong

 

[husky]

I did my alfresco using concrete posts and put 1 x 90x45 bearer either side of the steel bar that is central on each post which is a standard method. From memory the 2 x 90x45 bearers spanned 1.5m(also spaced @ 1.5) and then 1 x 90x45 joist spaced @450 cts all F17 structural treated pine.
I can't see how your proposed method is any different except you're using a stirrup instead of a concrete post.
Only pic I got but the two bearers sit on top of the post with an ant cap in between.

 

[husky]

There is a regulation for minimum distance to the underside of your bearers so I had to do a lot of digging but concrete stumps were easy. Do them all in one go at night with a laser level and make sure they're all level and that's the hard bit done.

 

[TheWiggman]

Agreed husky, except I don't have a laser level. Maybe this could be a necessary tool absorbing into overall cost? Using stumps is essentially the same as using a post except without a stirrup. I think I'll go stirrups up to the bearers and save stuffing around. Will also be a bit neater and keep wood clearer of the ground like you say.
droid, the spacings of the crossmembers vary depending on the size of the wood. I'm using 140 x 45 for the bearers which will span across 5.7m. If using 3 stirrups spaced 1.8m apart, my bearer spacing should be max 1.8m. I can't go bigger than that because I'm limited with height. If increasing bearer spacings up to 2.4m (which I'll need to in one spot) stirrup spacings are max 1.5m.

 

[bevan]

You could use a length of clear tube with water in it as a level, cheap option.

 

[husky]

A laser level is worth the investment imo. If youre local to SE Vic youre welcome to borrow mine.
I brought one as i extended the house so the cost was more easily absorbed and used often enough to justify.

 

[Dave70]

My new house has a roughly 5.4 x 6m outdoor area, most of which is covered. I've bought most of the consumables and am going super-DIY this weekend on a 5 Star deck. Wood's lined up, bank account's ready to take a hit and I'm browsing a few tools to absorb into the cost of the project. I've done plenty of research on span tables, Standards and the like and am confident I've got it 95% right. I'm after some advice or tips from others who have grown a few chest hairs doing one of their own - or even better, if you're a chippie and you feel like parting some knowledge to a fellow brewer.

The easiest and hardest part is the arrangement of the bearers. On every resource, the stirrups hold a post and the post supports the bearers as per below (or in a similar arrangement) -

However, the deck is going to be pretty low (height of 400mm above ground) and I was wondering if I could just go the two bearers, side by side, cradled into the stirrup and bolted through. This way it saves purchasing extra posts and cutting notches in each post.

Seems to be a lot easier but doesn't seem to be a 'done thing'. Clearly the hardest part of all this is going to be positioning the stirrups in the correct location to start with while waiting for the concrete to set, and I'm wondering if this is the reason.

This style of adjustable pier is popular with the pod kits I sell. Far easier to deal with than the set in concrete type.
Bolt the base down to the pad. string or lazer level the top the the required height then tek and or bolt into place. About $75 a pop for a 450mm job.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

nothing wrong with bearers directly to stirrups. If timber members are within 400mm of ground they should be H5 treated. above that H3 is ok.

 

[TheWiggman]

Thanks chaps. Unfortunately I'm on the NSW border husky but I appreciate the offer. I might ask around, surely I know someone who's got one.
That's good and bad news Liam because it'll be 400mm to the top (slab was raised to 400mm due to soil quality). I've only got H3 quoted. Is this a standard or just good ensurance? I'll have to get H5 ordered in specifically and I shudder to think how much it might cost.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

in my personal opinion it'll be fine as long as it's not in/on the ground.

 

[TheWiggman]

Started digging holes, **** it's actually happening.

 

[A.B.]

once you've built it dont forget to maintain it:

https://youtu.be/i6c4Nupnup0

 

[Dave70]

Thanks chaps. Unfortunately I'm on the NSW border husky but I appreciate the offer. I might ask around, surely I know someone who's got one.
That's good and bad news Liam because it'll be 400mm to the top (slab was raised to 400mm due to soil quality). I've only got H3 quoted. Is this a standard or just good ensurance? I'll have to get H5 ordered in specifically and I shudder to think how much it might cost.

Might be getting a bit late in the day, but have you considered a product like Boxspan? I generally push purlins for mezzanines but this stuff is easier for domestic applications, at least from an aesthetic angle.
None of the fretting that comes with timber. Here's a span table. *Might add, I have no affiliation what so ever with Spantec, just another occasional stream of income*

http://www.spantec.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Boxspan-Residential-Span-Tables.pdf

 

[TheWiggman]

That's the go Dave. I'm a metalworker at heart (used to be a welder) and would have gone a steel frame if it weren't for the cost. Screwing boards in would have been a task to, though I likely would have gone a steel subframe with wooden joists. How does the Spantec gear go price-wise?

 

[argon]

Laying your bearers straight into the stirrups, whilst perfectly fine structurally, might be a pain in the arse to the get you levels absolute. The idea with the post is to allow you to clamp your bearers level, prior to fixing them in. That is, marking their location, notching them into the stump/post then drilling through bolt holes.

I like the Uni-pier solution above as it allows some tolerance and adjustment.

Stirrups are notoriously difficult to get to a constant level, especially in wet/setting concrete. You might find that you'll have to use packers on the underside of the bearers prior to fixing them in... never the neatest or best solution IMO.

(Caveat - I'm an Architect... so you can tell me to snotted if you like)

 

[Liam_snorkel]

fancy that, an architect thinking about construction details
hehehe

 

[Dave70]

That's the go Dave. I'm a metalworker at heart (used to be a welder) and would have gone a steel frame if it weren't for the cost. Screwing boards in would have been a task to, though I likely would have gone a steel subframe with wooden joists. How does the Spantec gear go price-wise?

The XB series designed specifically corrosive environments, or the great outdoors, run to about $20 per lineal for 150 x 2.0 mm BMT and about the same for a 200 x 1.6mm. Either one will get you about 3m clear span. Thats about what we sell them for anyway.
Never fear screwing timber to steel. All ye need is a box of wing teks - and a QUALITY Phillips bit.

 

[spog]

My new house has a roughly 5.4 x 6m outdoor area, most of which is covered. I've bought most of the consumables and am going super-DIY this weekend on a 5 Star deck. Wood's lined up, bank account's ready to take a hit and I'm browsing a few tools to absorb into the cost of the project. I've done plenty of research on span tables, Standards and the like and am confident I've got it 95% right. I'm after some advice or tips from others who have grown a few chest hairs doing one of their own - or even better, if you're a chippie and you feel like parting some knowledge to a fellow brewer.

The easiest and hardest part is the arrangement of the bearers. On every resource, the stirrups hold a post and the post supports the bearers as per below (or in a similar arrangement) -

However, the deck is going to be pretty low (height of 400mm above ground) and I was wondering if I could just go the two bearers, side by side, cradled into the stirrup and bolted through. This way it saves purchasing extra posts and cutting notches in each post.

Seems to be a lot easier but doesn't seem to be a 'done thing'. Clearly the hardest part of all this is going to be positioning the stirrups in the correct location to start with while waiting for the concrete to set, and I'm wondering if this is the reason.

IMO pic #1 is the go.
With 450 mm in hieght to play with pic # 1 gives you the best and easiest option to help you get a flat deck or fall for drainage.
Using double bearers helps you as you can use 2 smaller section bearers to give correct support as opposed to a larger sectioned bearer that may hinder the clearance of above ground requirements etc.
Start with the finish point of the top of the deck, mark this then work down allowing for the joist depth,this will give you the position of the "top " of the bearers.
Have you got a straight edge ( a long metal sections maybe ) that you can use to put a spirit level on top of so a more accurate marks over the full width of the deck ?
Use the straight edge on each side to get your reference points then use it again along the face from each side to check how accurate "level" your set out marks are, if it's not long enough use some packing like bricks etc at the mid way point to help get an accurate reading from one side to the other.
Hand pick the bearers and joists your self to get the straight ones or tell the supplier you won't accept anything less.
Check the timber manufacturers web site for the recommended type and class of bolts screws and nails for the timber to be used.
Hope this helps. Cheers...Spog. ( chippie by trade )

Now get decked !

 

[TheWiggman]

Ahhhhhhh so now I can be selective with your knowledge spog, good to know
I got a good start on it today. Unfortunately everyone's sick so I did this all solo and I'm feeling the pain now. My goal today was to get the posts concreted in and even though the pics don't show it I got this done later. Delayed slightly due to my wife bogging the ute with sand in the front yard. For the 4th time. 56 warning...

I started by using the brick edges on the doors and a guide and worked down from there. Began with the ledger anchored in the bricks using Ramset masonry anchors. Got it all bang on level with the spirit level and some stringline then set up the two joists to the awning posts. Put the bearer in position. Some minor adjustment to bearer level and then made the two ledgers for the centre bearer over the concrete. Anchored those down, put the joists back on and then used them. Got them level and strait and used them for the rest of the frame.
Screwed all the posts in temporarily and they're ready for concrete.

You can see below I'm going to extend the deck in front of the door on the right which is otherwise a doozey when heading out with a load of washing. Note the foreman on the right, said "arrrg woof woof" which is dog for "sweet subframe owner".
Disregard the stubby posts close to the foreman, these are too short so I'll be taking them back for some 200mm jobs which will fit the bill nicely.

spog, I didn't end up with 450mm to play with so it would have been very tight on some of the posts. The bearer between the alfresco posts has 130mm stirrups which worked out to be perfect. Using 75mm would have possibly ended up with the stirrup metal hitting the bearers. The far front stirrups even closer to the earth, but I had to dig these about 600mm because the topsoil was soft, and the stuff under was rock hard.
Anyway I'm wrecked and am struggling to type. On call so have to be able to drive, and I'm got a thirst I wish I could quench. I'll let the concrete set over the next few days. Next week I'll have it all ready for the decking provided my wife sorts her **** out and orders some (that's her only job in this whole project).