Brewing a saison for noobs

[nosco]

Home brewing has been my education in beer. Before i started brewing i had not even heard of a saison (plus a shit load of other beer styles). If the brewing wasnt enough to keep me broke i try to try as many different styles as i can which isnt that many compared to alot of people on here. So far i havnt liked saisons.
I think its because its always described as a "refreshing summer" beer. Drinking camambert cheese mold is not my idea of refreshing. Im talking Dupont for eg. I didnt hate it but i wouldnt drink more than one at a time.
I had a La Sirene Wild Saison last night and really liked it. It is more what i would expect (without really knowing) a Belgian pale ale to be like. Only a hint of funk but a nice spicey, tart flavour to it. I thought maybe it was getting a bit old but the "enjoy before" date was november 2016. Is this a typical saison?

I have a ferm fridge but my garage brewery still gets hot so im all for a warm temp brew. I might develop a taste for the funk but in the mean time any tips on how to brew a saison with less funk/cheese mold? Temps, yeast, ingredients?

I'd like to do a Belgian blonde and a pale ale soon too just to dip my toe but thats another thread.

 

[Reman]

I don't think all saisons are made equal, I've had some really crap ones. I agree that the La Sirene is a fantastic example, it just tastes...right.

There are lots of different yeasts to try with Belgians and there is the various Brett's to try, then there's the world of souring. Probably as many variations as in the whole beer world itself!

Have fun!

 

[Blind Dog]

You might just find that the la sirene standard version is a better representation of a saison than the imported bottles of DuPont et al you occasionally find over here after a long boat voyage. Ive found them (the imported bottles) fairly dull and lifeless and at the price charged a big disappointment.

If you come across la sirene' wild saison, I'd recommend trying it. It does up the funk element over the standard, but it's fairly subtle and really well done (IMO)

 

[Reman]

If you come across la sirene' wild saison, I'd recommend trying it. It does up the funk element over the standard, but it's fairly subtle and really well done (IMO)

Do you reckon it would be possible to reculture from the bottle? I've only had one bottle, which was the Wild, but I couldn't remember if it had any dregs. Might have to get another...for research

 

[Danscraftbeer]

I found the La Sirene Wild Saison nicer than the standard version. The best I've tried and believe its because its made here its not compromised by transport. I was really impressed its made in Melbourne.
I've jumped in to Saisons total noob like. I've got three on the go. I'm just wondering that they may need some decent bottle conditioning time. I don't think its going to be a keg and drink soon kinda thing. Different yeast for each one. This latest one I used White labs WLP568. Stir plated for 5 hours. I did not at all like the smell of this yeast I hope its not bad. Its brewed crazy. The 1/3rd head space of the fermenter filled with krausen in 18 hours and near brewed out in 2 days.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Do you reckon it would be possible to reculture from the bottle? I've only had one bottle, which was the Wild, but I couldn't remember if it had any dregs. Might have to get another...for research

The first Saison I made was cultured from the dregs of 3 bottles. 1 X Wild Saison. 1 X Standard Saison and 1 X Wolf Of The Willows Saison. I cultured it up enough for a 20lt brew it all worked but tastes fairly strong and funky. Its in a keg uncarbonated yet. The whole time I'm wondering if your getting their brewing yeast or a different yeast they use to bottle condition.

 

[peekaboo_jones]

Hi nosco,
It's a fantastic style and has a broad range of flavour that's for sure.
An easy and good introduction to brewing a Saison would be quite easy, even a simple kit and kilo plus a Danstar belle Saison yeast goes well.
Anything pilsner or wheat malt based: Coopers Canadian blonde, Thomas Coopers wheat kit or even the original series lager for $11 from the supermarket and 500g light dry malt, made to 23L with Belle Saison fermented between 20 and 30C will make a nice drop to get a feel for brewing it.
Are you kit or grain based?
Check out the Australian armature brewing BJCP guidelines, often it has comments on ingredients used

 

[nosco]

Im grain based. I have plenty of pilsner and wheat 20-30c is a pretty broad range. Which side of the spectrum would give less funk for a starters beer? Or doesnt it work like that.....

 

[indica86]

It is ALL about the yeast.
Belle Saison when brewed warm can really turn the funk on, but it is good.
Mangrove Jacks Belgian Ale is a lot more subtle.
I used a Yeast Bay Saison Blend that was nice.
Wyeast 3725 Biere De Garde is a lovely yeast for a mellow beer. It attenuates well and in that last one I brewed left a slightly citrus like flavour. I bottled a beer today that used it, went from 1071 to 1005.
Made a very simple one today, 3.5kg Pale, 30g roasted and 25g of PoR FWH for 60 minutes.
I 'll throw that in the fermenter tomorrow and leave it on the desk in the brewery so it can do whatever it wants.

Simple malt bill, bittering hops and some good yeast is the way to go.

 

[manticle]

Go 3711, start around 20 and let it rise to 24-25.

Some fresh hallertauer mittelfruh or tettnanger to around 30-35 ibu with a small hit late (around 10 mins left in the boil). 75:25 pils:wheat, anywhere from 1035 for a low alc sessionable to 1050-1070 for something with a kick (remember it will go to 1006 and maybe lower).

 

[jyo]

My thoughts too, Manticle. 75-25 pils-wheat,(a handful of biscuit is also good) and noble hops all the way. 3711 fermented cool produces mild peppery flavours and aromatics and some slight fruity funk in the background. It's my preferred saison yeast. I see on here some brewers push 3711 into the 30's and then wonder why it tastes a bit shit house. I didn't really think much of the Belle Saison yeast, the Mangrove is a better dried option in my opinion.

 

[contrarian]

I've made a few saisons using wyeast 3726 and find it a great yeast. I've pushed the temp up to the high 20's and got a decent amount of funk but I'm sure this could be reduced by using a lower temperature.

It's a great beer for summer drinking. Mash low and make sure it is nice and dry. Let the yeast deliver the flavour and ferment at ambient. If you don't love it there's plenty about that will!

 

[Vini2ton]

I wonder why Dan's has no examples of saisons? I too am curious as to actual flavour and experience of said beer. Purvis here we go.

 

[nosco]

I have my MD motor ready to hook up to my mill then the brewery is fully functional. I have all the ingredients i need just need the yeast and maybe some fresh noble hops.

Will ambient be ok for ferm? Im thinking about Melbouren over night temps. Do I run the risk of stalling if over night temps get to cool? Ill probably use the firm fridge for first attempt. This time of year sounds like the best for ambient though.

Great info thanks all.

 

[manticle]

Belgian saison can stall if it gets too cool. 3711 is less sensitive. Personally I prefer to start either around 20 before letting ambient temps take hold. 3724 is for january/february.

 

[super_simian]

I wonder why Dan's has no examples of saisons? I too am curious as to actual flavour and experience of said beer. Purvis here we go.

Dan's actually have examples from Birra Del Borgo and St Feuillien fairly often. So...yeah.

 

[Batz]

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_776107/st-feuillien-saison-ale-750ml?orgSearchTerm=saison

Not a bad Farmhouse Saison, started my love of the style.

 

[crowmanz]

I pushed the Mangrove Jacks yeast M27 up to 30 degrees, I think I cubed it and pitched in the low 20's then ramped up. Didn't have much, if any, funkiness, it did have peppery notes. It was a dry, refreshing beer. I plan to run one at ambient temps soon to be ready for summer.

 

[sponge]

As per manticle's suggestion, you can't go wrong with 3711.

Very easy to work with unlike 3724 and have used it anywhere between 20-30'C with delicious results every time.

50/50 wheat and pils, bittered to 18IBUs. Awesome summer quaffer and grain to brain in a week.

3726 is another delicious yeast if you can get your hands on it as it's a seasonal one from wyeast.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

https://www.danmurphys.com.au/product/DM_776107/st-feuillien-saison-ale-750ml?orgSearchTerm=saison

Not a bad Farmhouse Saison, started my love of the style.

Were do you find that on the shelf? I've never seen it and whenever I've asked for Saison you get a blank confused look of (never heard of it :unsure: )