Braumeister vs 3V: pros and cons

[lswhi3]

What are people's thoughts on using a braumeister vs. using a 3V brew rig?
After doing a few searches on this forum, I could find a similar topic, so hopefully I'm not duplicating a previous topic.
Would appreciate your opinions!
Cheers,
Luke.

 

[idzy]

The main advantage of Brau is size. It comes as one unit, nice neat package and very well engineered. You pay for it though.

Main advantage of 3v is output quantity, also grain bill can be larger comparatively. Can be cheaper than a Brau.

 

[dicko]

I have a 20 litre BM and the only problem that I see is the capacity of the malt pipe only allowing a beer of around 1065 gravity before having to add sugar or other adjuncts to get a stronger beer.
There are ways around this that I wont go into here but you can easily get the info if you search around.

After having had a 3v Herms system I would never go back.

The repeatability, the accurate mash schedules, the not having to watch the process leaving you to do other things while brewing, the fact that you don't have hoses and connections that create a mess and have to be swapped from vessel to vessel during the brew day, the small space that the BM will occupy and last but not least, the ease of cleaning when compared to the 3v all go to make the BM a very attractive proposition.

Some argue the price factor but many like myself started out small and built up my 3v and if I personally totalled what I spent to build a reasonable 3v sytem over the period then the choice of a Braumeister would have been a " no brainer"

I'll just run out now and get my flame suit ready as I have a feeling that I may need it.

 

[lswhi3]

Think it would be possible to siphon off some of the wort from the brau during the sparge in order to increase the batch size, and then readd to the brau for the boil?

I've heard that it's possible to just use half your grain in one mash, and use the same wort you've collected on the other half of the grain in orser to increase OG. but I'm not sure whether this would have an effect on pH. If your using water that's at 5.5, and once you've added the grain it's at 3.5, would it matter if you added more grain after the mash? I haven't done a pH test on the wort post-mash so wouldn't know. Thoughts on this being good idea?
And anyone know what your max OG would be using a brau? Would, say, an Imperial IPA still be possible?

And I've heard some criticism that using a brau detracts from the art of the brew... But I don't really know how substantiated this is, just sounds like purism.

 

[dicko]

If yo brew Imperial Ipa's each brew then I wouldn' t get one.
I can do a 1065 og Ipa in mine without extending the boil or double sparging but just by using the machine as it was intended.
On a side note, most of the big beers that people do are the likes of Belgians and most recipes call for the use of candy sugar or you can just use dextrose or sugar to boost the og in an Ipa.

If I wanted to brew a "bigger" beer I would just boil for longer and have a bit less volume.

 

[Bribie G]

Full size BIAB in an urn is similar in concept to the BM (the Braumeister was the inspiration of the initial BIAB "researchers" ) but enables stronger beers to be produced as there's just a bit more mash space available. I can produce the same beer time and time again with little difficulty, but the process is a bit more demanding than the BM as you can't set and forget.

On the other hand it's very easy, basically three hours of boredom punctuated by brief bursts of activity. I even go out shopping while the mash is on.

I've been to quite a few 3V brewdays and find them quite amusing in some ways, poor guys dashing around, busier than a one armed painter with the crabs. Of course I bite my tongue B)

If you want programmability and have the $$$ then HERMS would be good, but even so I have had at least 2 HERMS brewers say that if they had their time over they would have just bought an urn.

ed: and it's not just about the beer - some guys like to race Toranas, other guys like to restore and rebuild and pimp them. As you'll see from this forum there are heaps of guys who just love to play with heat exchengers, arduinos, pids etc. I don't even know what a pid is :blink: except it rhymes with squid.

Anyway off to brew, it's Sunday :beerbang:

 

[Kranky]

Do both. The Braumeister is great for the smaller abv beers but not so great for the higher abv beers.

I tried double sparging but my efficiency was **** so I just incorporated my Braumeister into a 3v HERMS set up.

Best of both worlds.

 

[professional_drunk]

I've recently bought a 20L braumeister. The deciding factors were:

• Significantly reduces the amount of DIY projects you need to do.
• I brew in an apartment and a small footprint is essential both at brewtime and storage afterwards
• I'm busy and do enough cleaning as it is. Braumeister requires less cleaning.

One of the beers that I really want to get into is Doppelbocks. They're at around 1.080. I bought the short malt pipe and plan on doing a half batch and boiling it while I mash in a full batch and combine them at the final boil.

 

[Nibbo]

I have a 3V system at home in the shed and I've also got the 50 Litre Braumeister in the shop I use from time to time.

My 3V system is very hands on. The Brau is set and forget.
My 3V I can brew up big gravity beers relatively easy. The Brau is more restricting.
My 3V I have to manually adjust the temps for each step for the mash. The Brau you just punch in the numbers...although I have done this incorrectly more times than I like to admit and it doesn't do any good for the beer.
My 3V I can get a big rolling boil with my burner set on low. The Brau is lacking the good rolling boil.
Clean up is a bitch with the 3V. The Brau is very easy to clean up.

Each has their pro's on cons.
I like the 3V being hands on at home but I also like the Brau is set and forget when I'm in the shop.
I like my 3V system better but it takes up a lot of time to brew on that I currently don't have (I haven't used it in 12 months).

 

[pnorkle]

One of the beers that I really want to get into is Doppelbocks. They're at around 1.080. I bought the short malt pipe and plan on doing a half batch and boiling it while I mash in a full batch and combine them at the final boil.

Sorry to get OT for a second, but - short malt pipe for 20l Brau? Didn't know you could get them, only short pipe for 50l?

 

[lswhi3]

Kranky, so you're suggesting using the brau for the mash and then doing the usual 3V sparge where you drain the wort from the mashtun (in this case the brau) into your pot while sparging into the brau? and this gives you a high eff and OG? Sounds excellent

 

[professional_drunk]

Sorry to get OT for a second, but - short malt pipe for 20l Brau? Didn't know you could get them, only short pipe for 50l?

That's right. I got it from G&G.

My 3V I can get a big rolling boil with my burner set on low. The Brau is lacking the good rolling boil.

Disagree with this one. I got the thermo jacket and hood and I need to skim off the foam because I get boilovers from a very vigorous boil.

 

[Nibbo]

Disagree with this one. I got the thermo jacket and hood and I need to skim off the foam because I get boilovers from a very vigorous boil.

I agree the hood would make a huge difference.
Only offering what I experience with my setups. Both my systems do not use hoods.

 

[danestead]

I have a 20 litre BM and the only problem that I see is the capacity of the malt pipe only allowing a beer of around 1065 gravity before having to add sugar or other adjuncts to get a stronger beer.
There are ways around this that I wont go into here but you can easily get the info if you search around.
After having had a 3v Herms system I would never go back.
The repeatability, the accurate mash schedules, the not having to watch the process leaving you to do other things while brewing, the fact that you don't have hoses and connections that create a mess and have to be swapped from vessel to vessel during the brew day, the small space that the BM will occupy and last but not least, the ease of cleaning when compared to the 3v all go to make the BM a very attractive proposition.
Some argue the price factor but many like myself started out small and built up my 3v and if I personally totalled what I spent to build a reasonable 3v sytem over the period then the choice of a Braumeister would have been a " no brainer"
I'll just run out now and get my flame suit ready as I have a feeling that I may need it.

Spot on. Exactly my comments also. I have the 20L and have done and watched numerous brews on my mates 3V and I agree.

 

[Kranky]

Kranky, so you're suggesting using the brau for the mash and then doing the usual 3V sparge where you drain the wort from the mashtun (in this case the brau) into your pot while sparging into the brau? and this gives you a high eff and OG? Sounds excellent

I had a 3V system before I got my Braumeister but I didn't sell my original gear when I got the BM.

I use the BM as a HLT to get the water to temperature then transfer it to my MT (76L Blichmann - middle vessel in the photo). I transfer the sparge water into my original HLT (on the right in the photo) and keep it heated with an over the side heating element (it's on a different circuit).

I then put about 30 odd litres of hot water from my hot tap into the BM and heat it to my mash temp. I put my 50ft chiller coil in the BM, hook up a pump to it and the MT and run it as a HERMS.

When the mash is finished I drain the water out of the BM (I use the water for cleaning) and then transfer the wort to the BM and either fly sparge or batch sparge with the water from my original HLT. Then just boil as per usual.

 

[Batz]

Dicko is on the money there, I have a 50lt Braumeister which replaced my very nice 3V, I would never go back.
The Braumeister is not for everyone, but everyone who owns a Braumeister loves it.

Batz

 

[Eagleburger]

do the BM get stuck sparges as easy as a conventional mash tun?

 

[RobB]

......The Braumeister is not for everyone, but everyone who owns a Braumeister loves it.

Batz

I have noticed on this and other forums that while everyone grizzles about the price of a BM, there seems to be a total absence of buyer's remorse from those who have them.

 

[lael]

or you could build one. I definitely agree about simplicity and ease of use. I went straight to building a clone, and love both of them.

 

[Crouch]

The amount of time (not necessarily money), but time I've spent stuffing around trying to get my electric 3V HERMS system setup has been a little tedious ... for that alone buying a BM would have saved me loads of money in time alone. I've never used a BM, but from all the BM v 3V chatter I've read about, everyone loves them. I'd consider looking at a 50L BM in the future to run along side my 3V