Braumeister vs 3V: pros and cons

[Kranky]

do the BM get stuck sparges as easy as a conventional mash tun?

No they don't. The grains are contained in a malt pipe that are simply lifted out of the vessel in a very similar manner to a BIAB setup. If you mill your grains too fine you will get wort fountains shooting out the top though.

As far as the price of a BM goes, yeah, they aren't cheap as far as home brewing equipment goes but compare them to other hobbies like boats or cars and they don't seem too bad. The BM is easily one of the best things I've ever bought.

 

[Batz]

As far as the price of a BM goes, yeah, they aren't cheap as far as home brewing equipment goes but compare them to other hobbies like boats or cars and they don't seem too bad. The BM is easily one of the best things I've ever bought.

That's how I see it too, if you find an interest, hobby or sport you'll end up spending my money on it. What do people spend on golf, cycling, photography, etc?

I love brewing as much as I love drinking my beer, my 50lt cost me plenty but that was 3 years ago and I would have only spent the money on something else right? They are a big investment but one I'm very pleased I made.

Batz

 

[surly]

I was seriously considering forking out for a BM a few months ago.
I am not interested in brewing really high grav beers, so it seemed like a great option. However, I have a lot of space (currently) and other expensive hobbies (photography, snowboarding).
I also like to plan stuff and tinker a bit. Because of all this, I ended up making a HERMS 2V +HEX. Only used once and had rubbish efficiency, so more fiddling to do, but it was fun and I am happy.
Also, cost me less than a third of a 20L BM.

A few years down the track I can easily see myself getting a BM though. Very cool bit of kit and not really all THAT expensive when you consider it's quality and functionality.

For the record, my sister and parents have been into horses for years. If they saved all that money, they would fully own a second house by now.
Buy a BM. Buy a jacketed conical fermenter or 2. Buy a 6 tap font. Set up a yeast lab. Brew weekly. You will still be better off than the sap with 2 horses, probably healthier too.

 

[seamad]

I've moved from a single vessel system ( single batch brauclone) to a double batch 3V RIMS. With the 3V I start a second mash whilst the first is boiling, saving some time on a brew day. Once it's up and running I don't need to constantly supervise, alarms on the PIDs let me know when mashout done etc. It has taken a fair amount of time to get it all running smoothly though.Cost wise probably not a lot in it, never bothered to work it out. Clean up takes a little longer, not a lot though as a braumeister is still really 2 vessels ( + filter plates etc).

 

[Batz]

This was my 3v with HERMS, I still had it for a while when I bought the Braumeister in case I'd made a mistake. The 3V was a great rig and worked a treat, I loved building it as well, but I was never happy and I was always spending money tinkering with it.

There will be a BM cheaper option on the market one day soon, it's gotta happen.

Batz

 

[barneey]

I`ve owned numerous 3V systems from 20 to 100 litre systems. I then bought a 20 litre BM & made a 20 litre BM Clone. (both now sold on)

For me, when brewing smaller batches a 20 litre BM wins every time over a 3V system mainly for its easy of use.

The only thing I would suggest to anyone thinking of buying a BM is to spend the extra money and buy a 50 litre unit with an additional 20 litre malt pipe.

Anything larger than 50 litre, a 3V system wins basically down to cost and easy of use (hoists on the BM unit).

Currently building a 50 litre unit, the 3V 100 litre system, only gets used once a year at Green Hop time.

 

[thedragon]

I've got a BM 20L and love it. It is the best piece of brewing equipment that I have.

Pros:
- compact size, easy to store out in an out of the way place
- repeat-ability of brewing process as you can dial in temperatures and times for the mash and boil
- ease of brewing meaning that I can get more jobs around the house done while brewing
- easy to clean

Cons:
- cost (when compared to a two pot BIAB)
- the user interface is a little basic, but it does the job

I do often wonder if I'd have been better off getting the 50L, however it's so easy to use I genuinely don't mind doing smaller batches more often.

 

[Blind Dog]

Reading the BIAB threads here and elsewhere is what convinced me to move to AG and the BM is really just BIAB made really easy with a lot more bling than my $19 Big W pot. I have a 20L BM now and regularly knock out 2 brews in 1 day and occasionally 3. But the beers are no better than I could brew with BIAB, just easier.

It does throw off steam, but no sticky residues for me after 100 + brews on it. Cleaning is a hose down inside after use and then brewers detergent (sodium meta something?) in 10l of water with heater and pump on for 30 min at 50C at the end of the day. Easy as.

Would love to have the 50L but was quoted silly money to upgrade a circuit in the house to take it; one day I'll try a reiterated mash to brew a RIS but for now happy with a 1060ish upper OG limit from the 20L.

Also love loads of the systems on here and reckon some if not most are sheer genius, but I haven't the foggiest what they're talking about with their PIDs and whatnots. Hence the BM

 

[lswhi3]

I decided to go with a $500 20L DIY braumeister.
However, I'm looking to incorporate this into a 3V set up in order to get the best of both worlds, particularly because I like brewing big beers, and so would need to push the OG past 1060 sometimes.
I was wondering if anyone could explain to me how you could do this, and what the possible pros and cons would be.
At the moment it looks like I would do this by increasing the temp to 75C after the mash, slightly open the ball valve and sparging into a boiler using water preheated to 85C, just as you would in a regular 3V system.

 

[dicko]

I decided to go with a $500 20L DIY braumeister.
However, I'm looking to incorporate this into a 3V set up in order to get the best of both worlds, particularly because I like brewing big beers, and so would need to push the OG past 1060 sometimes.
I was wondering if anyone could explain to me how you could do this, and what the possible pros and cons would be.
At the moment it looks like I would do this by increasing the temp to 75C after the mash, slightly open the ball valve and sparging into a boiler using water preheated to 85C, just as you would in a regular 3V system.

If you are going to build one then build it to do the bigger beers

 

[mckenry]

I have a 3V herms. I enjoy using it. I flick switches and push buttons and open and close valves. Its fun. Its hands on.
The BM is great for exact repeatability and auto set and forget brewing.

I have a 4 speed manual V8 classic car with no power steering and no air con. I also have a 4 speed auto with all the mod cons, that beep at me, tell me when to turn left, shows me whats behind me, keeps me at exactly 21.5° no matter the weather outside etc.

No need to ask me which is easier to drive.
No need to ask which one is more fun though!!

 

[GalBrew]

I have a 3v HERMS system that took a lot of time and cash to put together. On brew days I am running around like a headless chicken trying to run the system. It takes ages to clean and takes up a lot of room. It is a massive PITA and I wish I just bought a 50L BM.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

I get the price/ease arguments. But what do people have to suggest a newer brewer say doing BIAB who wants to be able to recirculate and sparge whilst learning these processes along the way. Would a BM teach the same lessons or does the automation side insulate a newbie from the niches found when doing such on a 3V?

 

[mckenry]

I get the price/ease arguments. But what do people have to suggest a newer brewer say doing BIAB who wants to be able to recirculate and sparge whilst learning these processes along the way. Would a BM teach the same lessons or does the automation side insulate a newbie from the niches found when doing such on a 3V?

The BM will allow you to follow a recipe, step times, mash temps, boil etc without knowing much more than how to press buttons. (Simplistic I know, but basically with a set of instructions you could do it). With a 3V, you really need to understand where water goes at what temp and why, how long you need to heat to get to strike / sparge temp.
Its my belief you will get better beer from a BM with limited brewing knowledge compared to labour intense rigs.
You can still F up on a BM though. Just harder to do.

 

[Grainer]

Do you want high gravity beers or not? thats the first question.... I love big stouts and hands on ... so 3V was the only way to go..

 

[Batz]

Do you want high gravity beers or not? thats the first question.... I love big stouts and hands on ... so 3V was the only way to go..

What percentage do you like you stouts Grainer?

 

[Crusty]

I'm not fussed on high gravity beers so the 50lt BM was the perfect choice for me. If for any reason I want to push the gravity boundary, a smaller batch will just have to do. I've had several brew rigs & without a doubt, the BM is the best thus far. It's simple to use, makes awesome beers & I know I can repeat the same beer time & time again. I think the BM is what everyone tries to emulate with their own builds & a BM inspired system seems to be the bench mark for us home brewers. They do cost a lot of coin & you can certainly make something similar for a lot less but lets be honest, who doesn't want something straight out of the box that can control mash temps, do multiple step mashes & sound an alarm when it's time to add the hops. The damn thing even tells you to enjoy your brew after you've finished boiling.
It's a big investment but one you certainly won't regret.

 

[Grainer]

Last stout i did was a russian imperial stout aged on whiskey oak and one on burbon oak....YUMMMMMMMY!!

that one was 10.8%

 

[Grainer]

mind u if i had my chance over again id redesign my brewery to a blended electric and gas system..mind u i have used a braumeister and they are great.. cause the clean up on a 4v is a ****** !

 

[Adr_0]

What percentage do you like you stouts Grainer?

I get the feeling there is some bait being dangled here...

Back on topic, are there any brewers you can get to nearby where you can try a 3V, BIAB and Braumeister? Learning is a funny thing. I am a perfectionist, fiddly and geek (being a chemical engineer) but love simplicity.

I'm glad I've done 3V (three tier and two tier) in the past to learn from it. I suspect if I had bought a BM I would be adding another vessel "just to see". I would only go back to 3V if capacity became an issue, as there is a pot you can do with a $9 20L bucket.