Braumeister - Continuous temp rise mashing

[SJW]

Have read a few historical threads along these lines, but none relating to the BM, just a RIMS system. Anyway, from memory the BM raises temp about 1 deg C per minute, and maybe a bit slower with malt in the pipe. So given that, has anyone mashed in and either had a protein rest at 50 ish then just set the next step temp to say 72 deg C or even mash out?
Given that at a 1 deg C per min. rise in temp there is a fair bit of time in the B amylase zone for conversion of fermentables, and maybe stopping at 72 Deg C for a time to ensure full conversion would be appropriate, I wonder how this would work.
I was just thinking that while time for us home brewers is not an issue, compared with commercial breweries, we can sometimes forget, especially with a BM, that it takes time to do temp rises and conversion still takes place during temp rises.
I remember talking to the lads from Bluetongue Brewery and they said they just continually raised the mash temp to 70 then up to mash out. At the time I did not quiz them anymore as I never had a heatable mash tun, but it has me thinking now.

 

[lael]

While waiting for my clone to raise the temp I've wondered the same thing - what the 'real' time in each stage is. Haven't stopped and done the math yet though.

 

[mje1980]

I believe saison dupont is brewed like that, mashed in at 45c, and slowly raised til it hits mash out. Around 100mins. It's certainly a very very very nice beer.

 

[sponge]

20*C (55-75) over 100min or so would be interesting. I might have to give this a run through with my brew tomorrow unless someone with some real-world experience says otherwise.

 

[mje1980]

As long as you wanted a dry beer it'd work fine. Might be talking out my arse but beta is active from high 50's to mid 60's, so by the time you got to the high 60's you'd already have a lot of fermentables in the beer. As usual, I could be totally wrong.

 

[SJW]

As long as you wanted a dry beer it'd work fine. Might be talking out my arse but beta is active from high 50's to mid 60's, so by the time you got to the high 60's you'd already have a lot of fermentables in the beer. As usual, I could be totally wrong.

Interesting you say that! as its going to take at least this length of time to raise up through the temp steps anyway without adding a rest in there, remember we are talk BM here. I would of though it would give you a less fermentable more dextrinous beer than usual. Anyway, I am brewing tomorrow, and as I mash in at 11 pm tonight and set the first step at 245min @ 10 deg C so effectivley it mashs overnight, I might just set the second step to 72 degC for 60min and then a mash out step and see how that goes.

 

[sponge]

As long as you wanted a dry beer it'd work fine. Might be talking out my arse but beta is active from high 50's to mid 60's, so by the time you got to the high 60's you'd already have a lot of fermentables in the beer. As usual, I could be totally wrong.

Good point. Probably not best I try it on a mild then..

 

[lael]

Interesting you say that! as its going to take at least this length of time to raise up through the temp steps anyway without adding a rest in there, remember we are talk BM here. I would of though it would give you a less fermentable more dextrinous beer than usual. Anyway, I am brewing tomorrow, and as I mash in at 11 pm tonight and set the first step at 245min @ 10 deg C so effectivley it mashs overnight, I might just set the second step to 72 degC for 60min and then a mash out step and see how that goes.

Sweet. What beer are you making and have you made it before?

 

[SJW]

[SIZE=medium]Tomorrow I am doing one called Evil Dead Red. And American IPA/Red ale. No so interested in the malt profile with this one its more an experiment with extreme late hopping, including whirlpool hopping.[/SIZE]

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[SIZE=medium]Ingredients[/SIZE]​

[SIZE=medium]Ingredients[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Amt[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Name[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Type[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]#[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]%/IBU[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]4.60 kg[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Pale Malt (Weyermann) (6.5 EBC)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Grain[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]1[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]72.9 %[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]0.38 kg[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Grain[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]2[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]6.0 %[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]0.38 kg[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (118.2 EBC)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Grain[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]3[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]6.0 %[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]0.18 kg[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Grain[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]4[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]2.9 %[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]0.18 kg[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Victory Malt (49.3 EBC)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Grain[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]5[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]2.9 %[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]0.08 kg[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Grain[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]6[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]1.3 %[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]0.50 kg[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Sugar[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]7[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]7.9 %[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]14.00 g[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Hop[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]8[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]6.9 IBUs[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]14.00 g[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Hop[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]9[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]8.1 IBUs[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]28.00 g[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Hop[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]10[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]8.2 IBUs[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]28.00 g[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Hop[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]11[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]9.7 IBUs[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]28.00 g[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Hop[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]12[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]0.0 IBUs[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]28.00 g[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Hop[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]13[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]0.0 IBUs[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]1.0 pkg[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml][/SIZE]

 

[SJW]

Sorry about the format

 

[lael]

Have you made it before to compare the results?

 

[SJW]

I do have another house IPA I could do..... good point.

 

[SJW]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1991.tb01055.x/pdf

This was a good read.

 

[Goose]

looks alright to me but the table sugar seems an odd one... ?

 

[SJW]

Thats there to bump the OG up, due to limited room in the 20L Braumeister. 6 kgs is about its max.

 

[Goose]

Got it. And probably in small enough quantity not to affect flavour, but as a purist you would sub that with dme or dextrose if economy was not a concern

 

[gap]

Got it. And probably in small enough quantity not to affect flavour, but as a purist you would sub that with dme or dextrose if economy was not a concern

Why would you sub the white sugar??

 

[SJW]

Never noticed any diff with adding sugar. Even up to 20% in my Duvel Clone. Nice creamy head. Kits have up to 25% white sugar added to them, but thats not saying much.

 

[Goose]

Why would you sub the white sugar??

as I said in this small quantity, it's unlikely to make a difference in this beer. Also as I said, a purist would use dme instead because sugar just increases alcohol content but adds nothing to body or mouthfeel. Finally, at risk of repeating myself, if economy is not a concern, I'd use dme, though its much more expensive than table sugar...

 

[mje1980]

The Belgian purists use dextrose and white sugar to dry out a high abv beer, and would never use DME. The sugar has a purpose, other than economy in some beers.