Bottle Carbonation Using Wort

[stieger]

Hi,

Thought i'd start a discussion regarding Bottle carbonation using wort?

Has anyone had any success using fresh wort removed from the fermenter a day or to two once fermentaion has begun?

I'm not sure if this would work, but working on the theory of bulk priming using 4 grams Dextrose/ 2 grams light dried malt per longneck and mixing it with say 200ml of water for a 22 Litre brew ( 30 longnecks ), the solution would have a SG of say 1040 (figure plucked out of the air). When added to the bottle we would be effectivley adding approx 6-7 mls per bottle (200mls/30=6.67mls).

Could you use wort removed from the brew @ 1040 and add into the bottles at the same rate, ie. 6-7 mls per bottle?

I'm quite interested in this topic as i have only recently started bottling a few brews for Competitions and i really want to provide the best tasting brew possible. Am i wasting my time or do you think that carbonation drops/bulk priming using my above ratio are fine.

Keen to hear your thoughts

 

[Gulf Brewery]

Hi

The process is called krausening. Some good info here

I did this many years in my homebrew phase and I was pleased with the results. It was a bit of effort to get the carbonation right, but not too hard.

Cheers
Pedro

 

[chris.taylor.98]

I've used wort for bottle conditioning wheat beers before. Just use a brewing calculator to determine how much wort you need to get about 3 gravity points.

The hardest part is to keep the wort from getting infected before the end of the fermentation. I ended up sterilising it.

Other options are to use DME instead of sugar. I think there are even carbonation tabs you can buy that are made mostly from malt.

To be honest, I did not really notice a great deal of difference between wort, DME and plain old sugar.

I think the krausening that Pedro mentioned above would have a more noticeable impact.

Best bet is to try out a couple of methods on the same batch ( preferably a more delicate style such as Kolsch etc ) and see what you think.

 

[katzke]

Has anyone had any success using fresh wort removed from the fermenter a day or to two once fermentaion has begun?

Could you use wort removed from the brew @ 1040 and add into the bottles at the same rate, ie. 6-7 mls per bottle?

Keen to hear your thoughts

If you pulled the wort out after pitching the yeast how would you stop it from fermenting?

 

[buttersd70]

If you pulled the wort out after pitching the yeast how would you stop it from fermenting?

I think others missed the 'once fermentation has begun' part....

 

[Screwtop]

Zwickel has described this method before, the use of Speise (food) or wort taken before beginning fermentation and added post fermentation to carbonate the beer. I have done it a few times with success, but only using kegs and a releif valve set to carbonation pressure. For this I remove 2L of wort post boil and put it into a 2 litre plastic container which I freeze. This is removed the day of kegging and when it has thawed the Speise is added to the keg before racking the fermented beer onto it.

Screwy

 

[reviled]

Zwickel has described this method before, the use of Speise (food) or wort taken before beginning fermentation and added post fermentation to carbonate the beer. I have done it a few times with success, but only using kegs and a releif valve set to carbonation pressure. For this I remove 2L of wort post boil and put it into a 2 litre plastic container which I freeze. This is removed the day of kegging and when it has thawed the Speise is added to the keg before racking the fermented beer onto it.

Screwy

Am I right in saying you wouldnt need to boil the wort again before adding as the freezing is going to kill any bugs?

 

[Screwtop]

Am I right in saying you wouldnt need to boil the wort again before adding as the freezing is going to kill any bugs?

Couldn't see the need, just followed Zwickels instructions.

Screwy

 

[Weizguy]

Am I right in saying you wouldnt need to boil the wort again before adding as the freezing is going to kill any bugs?

If you have any doubt, boil it to remove the doubt.
Freezing may put some bugs to sleep temporarily, but they'll wake up when the wort warms.

 

[Effect]

Am I right in saying you wouldnt need to boil the wort again before adding as the freezing is going to kill any bugs?

freezing doesn't kill the little bugs - it just slows them down.

You could do a little no-chill for the 2 litres with an appropriate container...


Also, could you bottle to beer JUST before it has finished fermenting? There should be enough sugar left to let it carbonate itself? Or is that asking for unreliable carbination, quite difficult to measure and not too mention bottle bombs?

 

[Muggus]

Also, could you bottle to beer JUST before it has finished fermenting? There should be enough sugar left to let it carbonate itself? Or is that asking for unreliable carbination, quite difficult to measure and not too mention bottle bombs?

Yeah, that's pretty much bottle bomb territory there.
Unless you know EXACTLY what your FG is going to be and calculate it accordingly, which is very difficult to know, then I wouldn't risk it.

 

[Weizguy]

Yeah, that's pretty much bottle bomb territory there.
Unless you know EXACTLY what your FG is going to be and calculate it accordingly, which is very difficult to know, then I wouldn't risk it.

Maybe you would remove a 200ml sample of the fermenting beer and keep it somewhere warm, in a sealed vessel e.g. PET bottle. Measure the final gravity, and calculate how much sugar you need to achieve the right level of carbonation. Then use your brewing spreadsheet or pro brewer software to calculate the specific gravity at which you need to bottle. Don't expect the gravity to wait for you, it may occur in the middle of the day when you are at work or during our sleeping time, so be ready.

You should not cool the beer to slow the ferment as a number of yeast don't like that situation and will decide to go on strike. Then you will have a hard time reviving to achieve the correct final gravity.

Uncle Les

 

[muckanic]

I decided to rule sugar (really, fructose) out of most of my brews a long time ago, and so switched to glucose priming. To be honest, I doubt whether I could pick the difference where only about 5% of the fermentables are involved, and so that would apply to wort as well. It is probably an idea to use wort that has had a hop boil, although most dried malt extract will settle out clear without one.

I krausen any high gravity brew or anyone that has had a secondary. In that case, I usually time it so that most of the wort sugars have been consumed, and then add glucose. I would add that any brew that looks like it has finished at too high a gravity could also benefit from special treatment. It may simply be due to mashing technique or a non-attenuative yeast, but OTOH if it's due to a nutrient deficiency then carbonation is not exactly going to be fast under the unfavourable conditions of an exhausted yeast population and high CO2 pressure.