Boilovers And Kettle Size

[PistolPatch]

I've read so much here on kettle size, I am totally confused. I see that 40-50 lt is ok for a single batch but 60lt and 70lt are better and if you want to double batch then go 70 at least. I have to buy a kettle tomorrow and I have no idea what to do. Some questions I'd love to know the answer to are:

a) If a boilover is going to happen on a 23 litre batch (so I assume approx 30litres initial boil volume), how big a pot do you need to avoid an uncaught boilover?

B) If a boilover is going to happen in a 50litre pot, how much extra time does an extra 10 or 20 litre pot give you? (I'm guessing not much.)

c) If you do want to do a double batch, then surely, the above questions also become relevant? Surely 70lt is too small for a double batch?

As I have to purchase tomorrow morning I'm thinking I'll just go 50lt aluminium though I was hoping to get something that would be useful for a lifetime, ie SS.

Has anyone got any definitve answers or links on this? It would be much appreciated.

Cheers PP

(P.S. Now that BrissyBrew has solved the fridge temperature problem maybe he can come up with a way of preventing boilovers!!! I mean the big breweries must have a way of doing it?)

 

[razz]

PP. Here is some more food for (confusing) thought.
I do double batches based on filling 2 x 20 lt kegs.
I only have a 50 lt pot but I manage to boil 42 lts.
I dilute after the boil with 10 lts of water (boiled)
If you want to avoid a boilover you must watch it like a hawk or buy a huge pot.
Based on your enthusiasm I think you need a minimum of 50 lts because you know you will end up doing double batches !
PS. I don't think there is a definitive answer.

 

[sah]

I use a 46L kettle with a starting volume of about 36L. I've managed to just avoid two boil overs because I reacted quickly to knock the gas off. In fact yesterday there was some overflow but not enough to extinguish the NASA. If I'd been a second longer it would have been curtains.

If you are going to suffer a boil over it will happen at the start of the boil when the break is forming quickly. The speed which it can foam up is scary. If you don't adjust the temperature down in time I don't think it matters (within reason) what size kettle you have or how much wort you have in it. The trick is to adjust the temperature appropriately as the wort starts to boil.

I think I could probably get away with 41L of wort in the kettle if I was very careful.

Scott

 

[Stuster]

PP, I have done batches up to 32 litres in my 50 litre aluminium pot, could probably do a 35 litre batch too. (BTW, it's pretty solid and will not be going anywhere much quicker than a SS pot. It's probably more durable than a cheap SS pot.) You won't really have any boilover problem with a 50 litre pot, though you still have to watch it. It can rise up pretty fast, usually as soon as you turn your back on it.

One thing you have to factor as well as boil off during the boil is how much trub you leave behind in the kettle. You can just dump it all in the fermenter and let it settle out there but I now usually whirlpool (poorly) and end up leaving a few litres of trub at the bottom. I'm not sure if you are doing AG, razz, not sure how easy it is to do concentrated boils with AG, at least with reasonable efficiency. How do you do it, razz? :unsure:

For my purposes, a maximum of 32 litres is plenty. I am happier doing single (or one and a half) brews as then I get to brew more different styles and have a greater range to drink at any one time. If you do big brews, you either have to be happy drinking the same thing for a while, or have heaps of space to store a lot of kegs/bottles.

 

[Batz]

I own a 60lt for single and a 90lt for double batches

Batz

 

[Doc]

I usually boil 47 litres in a 50 litre kettle for double batches.
Have done 49 litres in a 50 litre kettle before with a NASA and finely tuned HP regulator control.

Doc

 

[berapnopod]

Like Doc, I have boiled close to capacity in my kettle (50 litres in 55 litre sankey keg) with minimal problems of boilover. I think with experience in how a boilover occurs (I have certainly had a few in my time), you should be able to boil with no boilover worries at all.

Also, try adding a small portion of your hops to your wort before it starts to boil. That will greatly reduce the head that forms when it first starts boiling.

Berp.

 

[PistolPatch]

Razz: You're onto me! Yep, I'd like to occasionally do double batches due to not only enthusiasm but a general lack of time. My schedule can be a little unpredictable as I work weekends if needs be and I get little notice.

SAH and Stuster: What you say makes sense to me. Either you're going to watch your boil or not. If you are going to watch it then I think pot size becomes not so important. I'm thinking all you need is another 20% of volume to allow for general bubbling etc, - am I right?

If you aren't going to watch then you're going to need a damn big pot, I'm guessing at twice the size of volume and then I'm wondering if allowing a boilover would affect the taste of the final product?

I am actually surprised that no one has come up with a solution to boilovers (from what I have read,) given the ingenuity I have seen in other areas of home brewing. I can think of one solution but it would
depend on whether allowing your beer to boil over is detrimental or not.

Doc and Batz: Just saw your posts as I spent so long writing the above! 49 litre boil must be exciting Doc! I'm thinking that I will be a watcher and a skimmer. My options are buying a Robinox 40, 50, 70 or 98lt. As time is my major limitation I'm thinking the 40 as in the future, when I'm in a bigger place, I can just double up on burners and kettles and double batch. I'm thinking this option will allow the brewing of 2 different beers at the same time. (Have the mash tun worked out already.)

Many thanks
PP

P.S. Before I read any more posts, I think 40lt seems to be an adequate kettle for 23lt final volume if you are going to keep an eye on your boil. If you don't keep an eye on it, I have no idea what you need! Hope I'm right. (Having said this, I'll probably go 50!)

 

[razz]

You know you want it !

 

[mika]

I thought "Irish Moss" was meant to be one way of stopping (or at least hindering) boil overs ??

 

[Batz]

I thought "Irish Moss" was meant to be one way of stopping (or at least hindering) boil overs ??

[post="125002"][/post]​

Irish Moss is added in the last 10 mins of the boil,boil overs happen as the wort first comes to the boil and hot break forms.
So no,Irish Moss won't help.

Batz

 

[shmick]

Go for a 50litre min
I made do with a 36 litre SS pot (now my HLT) for a fair while and had a few really close calls boiling 29l.
They always happened at the start of the boil even with a couple of crushed pellets thrown in before hand but I just managed to stop them each time with a spray bottle of water.
I'd even be nervous with a 40l but not a problem with a 50l. :chug:

 

[KoNG]

my kettle is 40L Ali, with an average boil volume of around 32L.
if you want to be able to walk away and you plan to boil strongly then i would say you would need the 50. I manage fine with the odd spray early on. When the 3 ring is maxing it gets to a very active boil.
i'd say go the 50L if you can afford the extra coin, but you can manage fine with 40L if need be.

 

[Samwise Gamgee]

I've had boil overs in a 50L boiler when boiling 36L of wort for a 20-22L batch.

I think once you get use to your burner and its settings etc you won't have to watch the boil so carefully, but most of my boil overs are due to trying to get it to a boil really quick and cranking up the heat and resulting in a quick starting boil as well as losing a little over the floor.

 

[devo]

I was lucky to come across an old 80lt Rheem that handles double batches with ease. Is a tad heavy to move around but I have upgraded/re-designed my brewrey to fit on a trolley and added a march pump.

 

[Airgead]

PP

Whatever you go for bear this in mind - try to go for something wide and short rather than tall and thin. The tall and thin boil over much faster than wide and short as the expanding foam gets pushed up rather than spreading out over a wide area. Professional stock pots are always of the wide/short type for this reason. Converted kegs are actually a pretty bad shape boilover wise as they are tall and thin and worse curve in at the top.

The key to stopping a boilover is to either catch it before it begins or to break down the foam before it can rise to the top of the pot. Air will break down the foam (but slowly) so a wider pot with a bigger surface area will help prevent foam formation. You can also keep a spray bottle handy and spray the foam as it rises. The spray will break down the foam and prevent a boilover. Apparently tossing a couple of hop pellets in will do the same but I've never tried that. Commercial kitchens use the watch like a hawk method (thats what apprentices are for) withthe spray bottle as a backup.

Cheers
Dave

 

[PistolPatch]

The above feedback is excellent - many thanks. I was unable to order a pot today to arrive in time for Wednesday so I'll have to make do with 2 pots on my first AG*.

Dave, special thanks for your post. I hadn't thought of shape and I do not have an apprentice! The Robinox pot I was going to buy today was the 70lt but I still wasn't happy with that choice as I was thinking it's too large for a single batch and too small for a double batch. Your post (and the others) has made me think a 50lt (45cm wide x 45cm high) will be OK for the singles.

As I can delay my decison for a little while now, I'll see what the feedback is on a 50lt. I only have a 3 ring burner and I suppose if I want to brew 46lts in a day I can just extend my brew day by a few hours rather than buying more equipment as I suggested above. (Hadn't thought of the cost at that stage!)

It's a shame Robinox don't do an 80 in SS as I'm guessing that this would be a nice compromise between single and double batches.

Cheers
PP

* Ross has very kindly offered to come over on Wednesday to ensure my first AG actually produces something like his Scwarzbier. He has even threatened to take pictures of the process which, given my equipment, will most likely end up in the Humour and Jokes Forum!

 

[Airgead]

Dave, special thanks for your post. I hadn't thought of shape and I do not have an apprentice! The Robinox pot I was going to buy today was the 70lt but I still wasn't happy with that choice as I was thinking it's too large for a single batch and too small for a double batch. Your post (and the others) has made me think a 50lt (45cm wide x 45cm high) will be OK for the singles.

As I can delay my decison for a little while now, I'll see what the feedback is on a 50lt. I only have a 3 ring burner and I suppose if I want to brew 46lts in a day I can just extend my brew day by a few hours rather than buying more equipment as I suggested above. (Hadn't thought of the cost at that stage!)

PP

I have the Robinox 50l ally pot which does very well for a 30l boil. I have only had one boilover in it when I had to rescue one of the kids from something at the critical moment. Managed to get the gas turned down before the foam got to the base of the pot so it wasn't too bad. Fits nicely on my 4 ring burner. Your 3 ring should be plenty good enough as I only run the inner 2 rings when it has reached the boil.

Volume wise I would aim for about 1.5x the max volume you are going to boil so 90l for double batches (or as close as you can get). The ally pots are good as they are a better heat conductor than stainless so you don't get so many hot spots. They are easier to drill for a tap and they are heaps cheaper. The link between aluminium and memory problems has been largely disproved so they are a pretty good choice. The advantage of stainless is durability - they don't scratch, dent or wear out like ally does. They also have better bling value. I'm sure there are other advantages to stainless but I can't remember them (must be my ally pot).

Cheers
Dave

 

[Batz]

Bigger is better

Ali is cheaper

Braid manifolds rock


Batz

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Sourced this from a mates elderly neighbour during a clean-up he was having ...ex us army stockpot :super:



Aluminium ...15 gal ... good condition.

Does anyone know a good method for cleaning-up aluminium? Any products/cleaners to especially avoid when working with aluminium?

... if you can remember, that is? :lol: