Biab Woes

[huscre]

Last night I started my first ever BIAB session and despite my best intentions just about everything under the sun went wrong..

My brewpot which I ordered a week and a half ago still hasn't arrived, so I was making do with a keggle instead.

Another store was out of stock of the deluxe burner I wanted so I was using a cheapo high pressure turkey (nasa) burner instead.

It turns out the turkey burner starves of oxygen unless you have a gap for air to escape around the base of the keggle, so I used some sandstone tiles to chock up the keg creating an air gap..

It turns out that sandstone tiles have a tendency to crack when you turn up the temperature threatening to drop the keg and spill hot wort across the floor, so I took a few breaks during initial heating to try get it safe.

It took a good 20minutes extra (than the checklist allowed) to reach 66degrees since I was afraid to turn up the burner to max power and crack the sandstone tiles. The instructions didn't emphasize stirring during this phase, but I did anyway since I was constantly monitoring the temperature.

After reaching 66 degrees I turned off the burner and let it mash, and after a few 5minute checks I was distracted by an unrelated emergency (fishtank overflowing due to a water timer that gave up after a few years of reliable service) and dropped my thermometer in the mash.

After tending to the fish tank I lifted the bag to get at the thermometer and realized the bag had a huge hole burnt through it and had lost all my grain into the keggle. I had been mashing with a burnt out bag

So now I feel kinda ripped off. I lost my swiss voile bag with mum's expert sewing, I lost my grain, my keggle has black polyester burnt to the bottom of it, yet I heated it slower than the instructions recommended, I stirred it more than the instructions recommended, I don't see what more I coulda done..

Has anyone else had this problem? and If so, is there a way I can save/re-use my grain if it happens again?

 

[QldKev]

Does not sound like the best day to have.


I raise the water to 69c turn of the burner and then add the bag/grain, this gives me my 66c without having a flame running with the bag in the pot. Not sure what your water starting temp was, but an extra 20mins to get to 66c? I'm running a modified 3 ring burner with a low pressure reg, I get to 69c in 25mins overall. Maybe it's just because I can run mine flat out as I don't have the bag in the kettle.

IMHO I wouldn't try and reuse the grain once you have a melted bag in there. Just chuck it the grain, its not worth getting sick over. Once it all cools get a scraper to the melted bag to remove it.

QldKev

 

[Wonderwoman]

sounds like a bad day

I've read of other people burning their bags. One solution is to use a cake rack in the bottle of the pot to prevent the bag sitting on the base.

 

[huscre]

Ahh thanks QldKev, that's a great idea. Next time I'll do the heating without the bag in there.
Also the cake rack is a great idea too wonderwoman.. I'm sure I can find one of those cheap.

I've placed another order for the grain.. $44 for 5Kgs of grain delivered at least I didn't have to re-purchase the hops and yeast.
I'll buy some new fabric today at lunch, and hopefully have another go tomorrow night.

FYI starting temp was around 13 degrees. It's pretty cold here atm.

 

[QldKev]

I tried the cake rack, but was still worried about the heat on the sides of the kettle.

I have a slightly modified version of BIAB

Raise 29L to 69c, turn gas off.
Add bag and grain
Stir and cover.
Every 15mins stir and recover.
15mins prior to end of mash, put 5L of water onto house stove and bring to almost boil. (you could measure this to be 77-80c, but my theory is in my case the grain has normally cooled a bit by the time I sparge so the extra heat is ok)

I have a large wide bowl/bucket that I use for sparging.
as seen in pic linky (this pic was my first BIAB, as below I do not hang the bag anymore)
In the bottom of the bowl I have a cake rack with the sides bent down so it sits about 2 inches high.
Lift the bag out of the main pot and sit on cake rack in the bowl.
Turn gas on to main pot to start heating, lid on.
After 5-10 minutes most the sweet jiuce has drained from the bag, so I pour it back into the pot.
Open the top of the grain bag (still sitting in the bowl/bucket) and pour over the 5L sparge water to rinse any extra goodness out.
Allow to drain for another 5-10mins and add the extra juice to the pot.
I find by the time I have finished sparging the main pot will come to a boil within 10mins.

Boil as per normal.

QldKev

 

[Bribie G]

When you reach mash temperature there is really no need to apply extra heat provided you lag the pot with old doonah, beach towels etc. I usually lose one degree per hour. Probably an idea to put the pot on a circle cut from a camping mat then swaddle it.
Better luck next time :icon_cheers:

 

[Katherine]

When you reach mash temperature there is really no need to apply extra heat provided you lag the pot with old doonah, beach towels etc. I usually lose one degree per hour. Probably an idea to put the pot on a circle cut from a camping mat then swaddle it.
Better luck next time :icon_cheers:

Bribie it gets cold in some parts of the world out side. We are finding we can loose heat very quickly and we need to put the flame on. Most of the conversion is done in the first half of the mash anyhow isnt it? In Summer we only loose a degree but different in Winter. Chillin in Winter is breeze though.

 

[eric8]

FYI starting temp was around 13 degrees. It's pretty cold here atm.

Not sure if you have anything big enough, but I have an old 10 litre water container that I use to fill my keggle with, just use hot water from the tap so that it doesn't take as long to heat up.

I don't add my bag till the water is at the right temp either. I don't use a cake rack, instead I just make sure that a fair bit of the bag is down the outside of the keggle and none of the bag is touching the bottom, so that when it comes to mash out you don't have to wrry about the bag burning.

:icon_cheers:

 

[Katherine]

Not sure if you have anything big enough, but I have an old 10 litre water container that I use to fill my keggle with, just use hot water from the tap so that it doesn't take as long to heat up.

I don't add my bag till the water is at the right temp either. I don't use a cake rack, instead I just make sure that a fair bit of the bag is down the outside of the keggle and none of the bag is touching the bottom, so that when it comes to mash out you don't have to wrry about the bag burning.

:icon_cheers:

Yeah we do that to Eric, but my bag is ripping up the top. Gee I hope it holds out for the two double batches coming up on the weekend!

 

[eric8]

Get Lloydie on to the sewing machine and knock up another one!!

 

[Katherine]

Get Lloydie on to the sewing machine and knock up another one!!

He probably would sow better then me! Im seeing Neville soon so Ill buy one of him... Just has to make it through the weekend!

 

[drtomc]

Bribie it gets cold in some parts of the world out side. We are finding we can loose heat very quickly and we need to put the flame on. Most of the conversion is done in the first half of the mash anyhow isnt it? In Summer we only loose a degree but different in Winter. Chillin in Winter is breeze though.

Took the words right out of my mouth. My deck isn't sunny QLD. Even so, with a couple of blankets wrapped round the pot over a 90min mash, I still only shed a degree or two, even on a chilly Melbourne night, when the brew-crew are wrapped to the eyeballs in coats, hats, and something strong in a glass.




T.

 

[huscre]

Ahh I see.. Mash out is going to be the real bag killer since you can't heat for mash out without the bag in there (can you?)
(Man I suck, I burned my bag before even getting to mashout)
I will try buy a wire cake tray at woolies today after I visit spotlight.

As for temperature, I had the opposite problem.
My keggle wasn't insulated at all.
I heated and stirred it to 66degrees, turned off the gas, double checked it was still 66degrees.
5min check: 66degrees
10min check: 66degrees
15min check: 68degrees -WTF?
20min check: fish tank overflowed, dropped thermometer, realised bag was burnt, all hell broke loose

So in hindsight, either I've stumbled upon an amazing new method of free no-gas heating, or more likely there was a hot patch hiding in there somewhere despite my stirring with a long plastic brewcraft spoon, that was able to raise the whole temperature by 2 degrees. I guess this helps explain the bag melting too.

 

[drtomc]

So in hindsight, either I've stumbled upon an amazing new method of free no-gas heating, or more likely there was a hot patch hiding in there somewhere despite my stirring with a long plastic brewcraft spoon, that was able to raise the whole temperature by 2 degrees. I guess this helps explain the bag melting too.

Don't know what the spoon is like, but I swear by my Bunnings paint stirrer, though the idea stirring motion is inclined to look rather suspect (and if you have no idea what I'm talking about, watch the out-takes from Stardust).




T.

 

[crundle]

Sounds like a brewer's nightmare you had, but take heart, you will not be making many of those errors again in a hurry, and the next beer you make will make up for this setback!

As with others, I heat up the water to about 2-3 degrees above mashing temp and then put in the bag and then add the grain, and then stir like buggery till it gets to mashing temp everywhere in the pot. I normally stir for about 10 minutes to make sure there are no cold/hot spots and the grain is all wet.

You may need to add heat during your mash if you can't reduce the heat loss to about 1-2 degrees per hour, but I have found that in Adelaide at least, BribieG's method of using a doonah/sleeping bag and blankets works wonders during winter.

I also get the water for heating up from the hot water system, to save some time.

If you find that you need to give the pot a bit of a hit with the burner to get the temp back up, it might pay to hoist the bag up off the bottom of the pot while you do so.

Hope the next one is a winner,

Crundle

 

[crundle]

If the temp rose after, then you had some major hot spots in there. This is why I stir like mad for 10-15 minutes before checking temperature again after adding the grain.

My setup is an electric urn, so I can heat up just by hoisting the bag slightly off the bottom of the urn, using a pulley on a pergola beam and a hook on the wall to tie up with.

Crundle

 

[seemax]

Don't add the bag until you need to. As for heating up to sparge temp... lift the bag while you heat or find a suitable cake tray, lifter, etc.

Althought not a single tun system, I use an esky for my BIAB. Add strike water, wait 60mins, add sparge water, lift bag and drain into your kettle. No need for a manifold, or to insulate your pot, and very easy to clean up. My last brew was around 85% efficiency preboil.

 

[dogger]

This is pretty similar to my brewday last weekend... Schwarzbier now with an extra Roasty Flavour.... This was about my 10th BIAB - and this time forgot the cake rake (these definitely work!).... Not sure if the Burn out happened during heating of water + grain (this is my normal process - and no problems with cake rake installed) - or during mash out - but when time to raise the Bag, all became obvious.

Decided to keep the batch (after musings), so "sparged" out the kettle using some leftover voile as a strainer into a double fermenter vat... (if Hot Side Aeration does exist, this'll find it!)... Left for a while, and came back to find the fermenter tap open (duh!), and several litres of Hot Liquor on the shed floor.

Salvaged what was left, brewed, and result (pitched on a cake of Wyeast Urquell) is in primary now. Ended up losing about 4 litres from Target Volume (seemed like a lot more spread on the floor!)

Interestingly - this additional process has lifted my "normal" brewhouse Efficiency by at least 10 points.... (Unless the "burning" has contributed to some unfermentables??) - I have a final FG of 1.066; initial target was around 1.055

 

[Bribie G]

Bribie it gets cold in some parts of the world out side. We are finding we can loose heat very quickly and we need to put the flame on. Most of the conversion is done in the first half of the mash anyhow isnt it? In Summer we only loose a degree but different in Winter. Chillin in Winter is breeze though.

Currently 8 degrees / 19 degrees so hardly a heat wave. Pollux in Sunny Sydney (brrrr) does ok with insulation only. However, yes I can cool down overnight in the cube now and that's a bonus.

 

[Katherine]

Currently 8 degrees / 19 degrees so hardly a heat wave. Pollux in Sunny Sydney (brrrr) does ok with insulation only. However, yes I can cool down overnight in the cube now and that's a bonus.

We brew outside in the elements...