Biab Woes

[manticle]

Which BIAB'ers are boiling their fabric ? Perhaps my understanding of the process is incorrect.

As an aside, why does eveyone jump on Darren way more than cutting down other members ? It appears that every time I see his posts, people go to great pains to kick him in the teeth.

I'm aware there's a trend to respond to Darren negatively. I've not been around long enough to know the history of whys and wherefores and I don't much care. My personal reasons are as described above. On the one hand you have people like butters who will write you a book on brewing if you ask right, or Sappas who's quiet here but will drop around AG brews on your doorstep because you asked him or Chappo who posts you his old manifold (postage on him) or screwtop with useful advice on mashing or Gilbrew posting hop flowers for the price of postage, or supra Jim and Brendo letting you pop round for a brewday or a million other helpful strangers. On the other hand you have Darren making a pain in the arse of himself and offering diddly squat. I don't care much for mob mentality but I also don't care much for tedious shitstirring unless it's funny and on a forum different to this one.

If he could prove himself to actually want to help others brew better with his amazing wealth of knowledge, I'll happily send him several bottles of my best brew (not brewed in a bag or no-chilled) and photos of me eating a gigantic hat.

 

[bum]

To quote another regular here in times like this....

WOW

Actually, it looks like he's inadvertently answered your question.

 

[huscre]

Not sure how many people have until now used metres of CURTAIN material boiled to make food products.

It's just polyester. I don't think the fact that it's used in curtains gives it any extra toxic powers.

^light hearted joshing of course.

But thanks for your concern.

 

[Bribie G]

snip.....................
As an aside, why does eveyone jump on Darren way more than cutting down other members ? It appears that every time I see his posts, people go to great pains to kick him in the teeth.

linky

Edit:
Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly nave questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation.[9]

Fortunately this forum has not as yet become sensitized to trolling, hopefully this will not happen unlike some other forums I have been on.

 

[bum]

linky

Edit:
Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the newsgroup community. Furthermore, in a group that has become sensitized to trolling where the rate of deception is high many honestly nave questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation.[9]

Fortunately this forum has not as yet become sensitized to trolling, hopefully this will not happen unlike some other forums I have been on.

I prefer this reference. Prob not work safe.
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Troll

 

[pdilley]

Thanks for the positive words guys,

I was hoping to make a big comeback post today with stories of epic success, but unfortunately my replacement grain didn't arrive in the post this morning.



CraftBrewer isn't open on Mondays.

Could I interest you in brewing a Mead

 

[huscre]

Could I interest you in brewing a Mead

Ahh lateral thinking. I like! Now if only we could make that with BIAB...

:icon_offtopic: I've never tried mead. <dumb question>I do they sell mead at Dan Murphies..?</dumb question>

 

[PistolPatch]

Sorry huscre that your first brew day was a nightmare. It happens unfortunateley but you won't go through that nightmare again.

I am also sorry that in the guide it says to add the bag and grain first. I wrote the guide ages ago but did add corrections in post #1 of the main BIAB thread. It is hard to find though. New guide will be out soon with all things like that corrected.

I don't think many BIABers have entered comps and I'm not that interested in them. I did throw a Munich Dunkell into the Royal Perth Show here so I cvould get 2 tickets to the exhibitors tasting . I brewed this beer as a mid-strength and it had a very slight infection from a fermenter ball-valve. It still managed to get a bronze though.

Also, using a higher liquor to grain ratio does NOT produce a more dextrinous wort. The following which comes from this series of experiments confirms that high liquor to grain ratios actually are more efficient and do not prove to change fermentability.

“Home brewing literature suggests that thin mashes lead to more fermentable worts, but technical brewing literature suggests that the mash concentration doesn't have much effect in well modified malts [Narziss, 2005]. Briggs cites data that doesn't show a change in fermentability when the mash thickness is changed [Briggs, 2004]. This was confirmed by these eperiments where all the data points were on the same curve that had already been established in thetemperature experiment.”

Good luck for the next one. It's not much fun taking one for the team but I have been there several times myself mate.

:icon_cheers:
Pat

 

[huscre]

Thanks Pat.

Kudos on a great guide. My wife had fun reading out the instructions and filling out the checklist.
A great contribution to the community IMO and I doubt I would have bothered with BIAB without it.

Keep up the good work! :icon_cheers:

My hardest step (aside from not melting the bag) was working out exactly which grains & hops to buy with such a large selection to choose from. It would be useful to have a short section in the appendix for adjusting hops based on AA%, and a conversion between lovibonds and EBC for us complete n00bs. I'm not tryin to be picky, the guide was just so good that ingredients were the biggest trouble I had.

 

[PistolPatch]

Mate, grains are confusing! I'm amazed at some new brewers who seem to get a very quick handle on this side of things. They all sound the same to me . It is certainly not a thing I am skilled at. I am very skilled at pinching other people's recipes I like though!

There are some good grain guides around. Here is a nice simple one that I stole from somewhere...

View attachment grain_comparison.xls

I think a great thing for you to do would be to get in touch with the Illawarra Brewer's Union. These are very good brewers and top blokes who love a beer. They will certainly help you out. Maybe PM PostModern and tell him I said to get in touch.

Try and find yourself a recipe that you will want to brew over and over. This can be your base recipe from on which you try out any changes to your brewing procedure. You might want to brew this every 2nd brew or something whilst in between you try out others.

I don't know if there is a good grain shop near you but transport is pretty cheap when you order a bit of stuff at a time. MHB has a shop in Newcastle which is probably the closest retailer I know to you. You can phone him and he will help you out no end and give you great advice. He also knows his grains back the front.

What sort of beers do you like at the moment?

 

[RdeVjun]

Thanks PP for the guide, yeah I too made it hard for myself by putting a bag of grain in cold water and bunging the stockpot on the heat. Thankfully there was only a small hole, after that the round cake cooling rack made a brief appearance, then I went to pre- heating mash water, raining in and stirring and don't need the rack, I lose 1-2 degC an hour and use lower, longer mashes and very pleased with the whole process, so much so that I'm no longer in any great rush to knock up an MLT.

Oh BTW, just on the whole BIAB being a relatively new thing/process, I was recently given a copy of "Brew like a monk" by Stan Hieronymus (Brewers Publications, 2005) and nearly fell off my chair when I read (p11),

"2. Contain the mashed grain in a large grain bag..."

and the recipe goes on to describe basically the whole BIAB process. Now this is from a Chimay recipe and it is actually quoted from another book "Brewing Beers Like Those You Buy" by G.W. Kent (1978) and says,

"...reflects what ingredients were available to homebrewers in 1978, and the process they would have employed."

(p10 of Hieronymus)
Perhaps Stan was being a bit generous as I tend to think we would've heard about this process before now, but does anyone have a copy of Kent? Again, its a modern (well late 70s) recipe for a trappist and not really describing trappist methods at all, just bear that in mind- the inference is that trappists probably didn't BIAB!
Anyway, I'm not having a shot at anyone or trying to stir the pot, just sharing what I stumbled upon in the literature. I found it very interesting, sure others would too. Oh, and many thanks adelaidebrewer for the book, its a cracker!

And finally, is it just me using the Ignore User function and no one else? Trust me, it works wonders. B)

 

[eric8]

I put out the challenge last year to hear from any award winning BIAB'ers to come forward. None (to my knowledge) every have. I am sure it possible, especially in heavier beers (stouts etc), but I would love to know if any BIAB beers have won in light lager catagories in major competition.

If I am wrong the competition results should prove it.

I know it is only a small comp, but I got a third in the Hills District Brewing Comp. First comp I have entered. I think TB entered some BIAB's into a comp and got a place or 2 as well.

Manticle :super: , I totally agree with what you are saying about you know who! And the curtain material, well it NEVER gets boiled, so why don't you make sure that you know your facts before going and drubbing on people!

 

[huscre]

Try and find yourself a recipe that you will want to brew over and over. This can be your base recipe from on which you try out any changes to your brewing procedure. You might want to brew this every 2nd brew or something whilst in between you try out others.

...

What sort of beers do you like at the moment?

Good Idea, I went through the recipeDB and found soo many IPAs that I wouldn't know where to start!
My fav. Commercial beers are:
1) James Squire IPA
2) Matilda Bay Bohemian Pilsener
3) Little Creaures Rogers & Pale Ale
4) Dos Equis XX (I'm fascinated with the oaty aftertaste)

Any suggestions for what I should brew next are welcome.. I have an empty beer fridge ATM so plenty of space for a few batches when I get back

 

[Renegade]

What do YOU want to brew ? No point anyone else deciding for you.

Why not pick one from the list you have just made of your favourite commercials, and try and replicate one of those.

Keep in mind that you may not be able to do a Pilsener though, unless you have a temp. control setup (ie a fridge for your fermenter)

 

[Maxt]

Also, using a higher liquor to grain ratio does NOT produce a more dextrinous wort. The following which comes from this series of experiments confirms that high liquor to grain ratios actually are more efficient and do not prove to change fermentability.

Home brewing literature suggests that thin mashes lead to more fermentable worts, but technical brewing literature suggests that the mash concentration doesn't have much effect in well modified malts [Narziss, 2005]. Briggs cites data that doesn't show a change in fermentability when the mash thickness is changed [Briggs, 2004]. This was confirmed by these eperiments where all the data points were on the same curve that had already been established in thetemperature experiment.

Good links Pat thanks for the update.

 

[Bribie G]

This time of year, especially in your neck of the woods, you should be right to make any types of ales, stouts and porters at your ambient temperature and even some 'proper' lagers if you use a temperature-flexible yeast such as Morgans Lager yeast or Wyeast Californian Lager (the one they use in steam beer) which can chug along nicely at about 16 or 17 degrees.
Another guy you could PM, and he won't bite your head off, is FatGodzilla at Tuross who should point you in the right direction and of course there are mobs of Illawarra guys on the forum with their own club/support group which is quite active judging by their threads / posts.

 

[cdbrown]

huscre - I recommend you get on the chat room sometimes as generally someone will be able to advise the grains to use.

I've gone for Barrett Burston Galaxy Pale Malt, Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise and Barrett Burston Pale Ale Malt and the 3 base malts. Galaxy is the one that seems to be in most of my recipes. Then for the other malts to add specific flavour or colour normally just 1kg of each. I just bought enough grain for 8 AG brews with a bit left over and that cost $150 for 45kg-ish.

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks for the info RdeVjun. I'll have to look that up and have a squiz!

Congrats eric8! You're the man!!! Also the polyester has a melting point of about 250 degrees celsius so shouldn't have any plastic problems there.

That's great you know what you are chasing huscre. I'm sorry I can't help with recipes as I just steal them. As bribie said, Fatgodzilla is a helpful bloke and most friendly to correspond with and cdbrown's ideas are great as well. Give them a go. The Galaxy malt is a handy base malt as you can use in both ales and lagers. I am looking forward to hearing how your next brew day goes. Really smoothly eh? Forgot to say before that I was glad to hear your other half enjoyed helping out. Good on her!

Maxt: No worries. Some interesting stuff in all that.

Spot,
Pat

 

[huscre]

Just thought I'd chime in with a followup to my ititial BIAB experience, since everyone gave so much reassurance and some expressed interest in how much better it might go second time around...

After the initial failed attempt I went overseas for a few weeks, but when I got back I re-organised the ingredients (as per the BIAB Black Beer.xls list) and had another go.

My only trouble this time around was after the boil, trying to syphon out the hot wort into a cube with a garden hose (I had nothing else on hand). The hose got pretty squishy and kept folding and losing syphon almost instantly.. I also burnt my mouth a bit since the hose wasn't clear and I couldn't see when to stop sucking and start syphoning... I gave up on that, threw caution (and HSA) to the wind and poured it into the cube as carefully as i could.

I left it on its side overnight to cool, and transferred to glass carboy the next day and pitched a Saflager yeast since the weather was pretty cold at the time.

I kept it wrapped in a damp towel for the next few days (at ~11deg).. then got lazy and forgot to keep the towel wet (rose to ~13deg), but fermentation was pretty much over by then anyway.

I racked it to a cube and left it to rest for another 11 days at around 13deg.. Then I got impatient and kegged it.

I have to say this is the best beer I've made yet. I was expecting something like a tooheys old (which i hate) but this is really something else. It pours with a really nice creamy head that I admit doesn't stay around as long as I'd like it to.. I can't taste any of that "homebrew" taste like many of my previous extract batches, A very sessionable beer IMO. I'm dreading the day the keg runs out, which will probably be pretty soon at the rate its going down.

Thanks again for all the help AHBers!

 

[crundle]

Great stuff huscre!

I don't worry about HSA at all, never had an issue yet, I pour my wort from my urn tap into a cube.

Now you have been sucked in by how good beer can be made, you will never be the same - have a look at what happened to Chappo!!!

Now for you to get busy brewing up some stocks, because nothing is worse than going to pour a beer from the tap and it blows on you when you have nothing else on tap to fall back on!

Crundle